Alnico III vs IV?

M

mountain2012

New member
Which is a stronger magnet and where do these sit compared to the strengths of II and V?

I see conflicting reports all over the internet and want to clear things up. Do you happen to have a link or pic of a datasheet proving your claims?
 
Re: Alnico III vs IV?

right. id say

III
II
IV
V
VIII

i havent tried VI or VII
 
Re: Alnico III vs IV?

mountain2012 said:
According to this link it goes IV, III, II from weak to strong unless I'm reading it wrong:
Click to expand...
Download and open the "Cast Alnico Permanent Magnet Catalog".

The spec you need to look at is the "Coersive Force Hc" in pag. 3, expressed in Oersteds. The higher the value, the stronger it is.

A2: 560 Oe - A3: 475 Oe - A4: 720 Oe.

That's the specific answer to your specific question.

HTH,
 
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Re: Alnico III vs IV?

LtKojak said:
Download and open the "Cast Alnico Permanent Magnet Catalog".

The spec you need to look at is the "Coersive Force Hc" in pag. 3, expressed in Oersteds. The higher the value, the stronger it is.

A2: 560 Oe - A3: 475 Oe - A4: 720 Oe.

That's the specific answer to your specific question.

HTH,
Click to expand...
Thank you. I was looking at Residual Induction and Induction at Maximum Energy Product in Gauss. But then according to the sheet, A4 is stronger than A5?
 
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Re: Alnico III vs IV?

mountain2012 said:
according to the sheet, A4 is stronger than A5?
Click to expand...
In the case of anisotropic magnets, those numbers don't apply when comparing'em with isotropic mags like A2,A3, A4 and UOA5.

A5s are almost twice as strong as A4s.

Confused yet? ;)
 
Re: Alnico III vs IV?

LtKojak said:
In the case of anisotropic magnets, those numbers don't apply when comparing'em with isotropic mags like A2,A3, A4 and UOA5.

A5s are almost twice as strong as A4s.

Confused yet? ;)
Click to expand...
I am...but appreciate the info. So, what is the strongest and weakest of the group? How does this affect tone?
Thanks!
 
Re: Alnico III vs IV?

When I've intentionally weakened magnets, the effect was similar to lowering a pickup, the output decreased and the treble became more prominent. Taking the magnet out entirely is the extreme, very low output and if you crank the volume, you mostly hear treble.
 
Re: Alnico III vs IV?

I'm surprised that you would get any sound at all with the magnet removed.
 
Re: Alnico III vs IV?

DreX said:
When I've intentionally weakened magnets, the effect was similar to lowering a pickup, the output decreased and the treble became more prominent. Taking the magnet out entirely is the extreme, very low output and if you crank the volume, you mostly hear treble.
Click to expand...

Demanic said:
I'm surprised that you would get any sound at all with the magnet removed.
Click to expand...
I think there's some residual magnetism.

My dad had this wrench in his toolbox (a serious toolbox since he's a diesel mechanic) which was not magnetic when he purchased it but laid against a magnet in the box for so long that it would hold a magnetic charge for a while.
 
Re: Alnico III vs IV?

A6 is like a darker A8. If you think of A8 as a high output version of A2, A9 is to A8 as A5 is to A2 -- more power, and more bite and grind, though the scoop isn't as pronounced as A5.

Have not been able to procure A7 yet -- the minimum order I've found is for 200 lbs., a bit much to experiment with.
 
Re: Alnico III vs IV?

Demanic said:
I'm surprised that you would get any sound at all with the magnet removed.
Click to expand...

There's some residual magnetism in the pole pieces, but maybe the coil(s) also generate their own slight magnetic field when they're running into a guitar amplifier, I'm not sure about that though.
 
Re: Alnico III vs IV?

I would go with the idea that there is residual magnetism in the poles. The coils themselves are copper wire, which as far as I know is non ferrous.
 
Re: Alnico III vs IV?

One thing that doesn't seem to exist is a clear break down of what properties of a magnet have what effect on tone and precisely why. Assuming the size and shape of the magnet are equal, he two factors I know to make a difference are 1) the overall magnetic strength and 2) the degree two which the magnet's alloy effects inductance in the coil, and it's very easy to appreciate how both factors can effect tone, but then there are other factors which are not as easy to account for, do they effect tone, and if so in what way and to what degree? Even magnet experts can't offer much help because their knowledge pertains to industrial uses for magnets, not guitar pickups. It's clear that pickup winders rely on trial and error and aren't looking at magnetic spec sheets to match up a particular alloy to a tone they're going for. The year is 2015 and it still feels like we're in the dark ages in a lot of ways.
 
Re: Alnico III vs IV?

Demanic said:
I would go with the idea that there is residual magnetism in the poles. The coils themselves are copper wire, which as far as I know is non ferrous.
Click to expand...

Maybe you or someone else can answer this question, I'd check but I dont have a guitar amp and a multi-meter on hand at the moment, but does a guitar input have some amount of voltage coming from it? If so, then when that voltage travels through the pickup, it would cause an electromagnetic effect.
 
Re: Alnico III vs IV?

Now that I think about it, I suppose that it could make sense that there was some voltage coming back from the amp, though wouldn't that require the current to be alternating? If the set up is direct current, which I suspect it is, wouldn't the current just move from guitar to amp and then to ground? Of course, in the case of an improperly grounded setup, current can move back through the guitar and you into something that is grounded, like a microphone.
 
Alnico III vs IV?

IME, A3 is the weakest. A2 comes next. (Many people don't seem to realize that A2's are such relatively weak magnets...but they are.) I group those two together as the low output alnico pickup magnets. I think of A3 as a Diet A2. Similar neighborhood tonally, but a difference in power.

There is a bigger difference between A2 and A4 than there is between A2 and A3. And A4 to A5 is a bigger gap than A2 to A4 (at least to my ears). Nonetheless, I think of A4 as a Diet A5. Again, in the same basic "tonal family," but very different in power.

These differences in power affect how the magnet will interact with your amplifier, which affects where you get your breakup. The way I think if it, if you like the basic tonal flavor of an A2 or A5, but they are fuzzing out your amp too early, then switch to the magnet's respective "Diet" version for a similar tone, but more clarity.
 
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