Alternative brands to Gibson

[TRex]

I kinda want another Les Paul, one a bit nicer stock than my Epiphone and in a nice dark burst. USA Gibsons are out due to QC standards. I am mostly window shopping rn, but what should I be looking out for?

As I look I see a lot of almost Les Pauls, ones with almost the right body shape, some with the wrong control pattern, some that are just wrong looking to me. Oh and I would like to stick with American , Candian, Japanese, or other respected sources.

I would like the body to be as close as possible to a Gibson Les Paul. I want set neck, 4 pot control pattern, 3 way switch, single cut body, bound neck, large inlays, correct woods. I want it to have everything I fell in love with on my Epiphone on my uncles gibson, but I don't care about the exact gibson headstock shape or other things gibson is really anal about.

PRS singlecuts look and feel weird to me, I don't think I could pull the trigger on one.

Ibanez has the ARZ model that's close but with an ebony fretboard. May give them a try if I can find one in stock local at Guitar Center.

ESP has a promising model like the ARZ, but it looks like it's more common to find them with

A Hamer Studio Custom looks like something I could try, but they are discontinued because of fenders stupid decision to discontinue the brand. Candian so so it may not like any rude pickups I put in it [emoji14]

Heritage guitars look really promising, and I have heard great things about them. USA made in the original gibson factory. Has a ticker neck I think I ought to like. I'll have to go downtown to try one out though.

There is some local guy building beautiful custom guitars, mostly les pauls and explorers I think.

 

[voggin]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

I'm a bit of a skeptic when it comes to the poor Gibson QC thing, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt.

I own three Gibsons (2 Les Pauls) and there are no QC issues with them. They are from 2010 and 2011.

From what I can tell, most QC complaints about Gibsons, and Les Pauls in particular, are cosmetic: finish issues and the like. Although I haven't personally seen these things, I am willing to accept they exist. However, if you buy the guitar in person rather than online, you should be able to tell if they are present or not. I personally haven't heard of any "structural" issues with recent LPs that affect the actual use of the guitar, just things like file marks on the fretboard, a thin lip between the fretboard and the neck, and bleeding of stain onto the binding.

So if you're able to try out the guitar, you can go over it with a fine tooth comb to ensure those things which may or may not be a deal breaker to you are present. Like I say, I haven't got any of those issues with mine, but then again, something like a finish bleed onto binding wouldn't bother me. But it's your hard-earnded money, so if that's unacceptable to you, then you shouldn't have to put up with it.

I don't like the changes Gibson made to their lineup this year, so I would recommend you go used, or find one of those limited runs without the new features (wider neck, autotune, etc.)

As an aside, some of the QC complaints such as the binding bleed are actually present in vintage Gibsons that people pay tens of thousands for. As I understand it (never having played a true vintage LP myself) Gibson didn't even smooth the sides of the headstocks on the "holy grail" guitars back in the fifties.

YMMV, etc.

 

[DreX]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

USA Gibsons are out due to QC standards.

If you can see the guitar in person, and know what QC issues to watch out for, this is a non issue.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

I personally have had zero QC problems with the USA Gibson guitars that I have owned and even played...

 

[TRex]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

I'm a bit of a skeptic when it comes to the poor Gibson QC thing, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt.

I own three Gibsons (2 Les Pauls) and there are no QC issues with them. They are from 2010 and 2011.

From what I can tell, most QC complaints about Gibsons, and Les Pauls in particular, are cosmetic: finish issues and the like. Although I haven't personally seen these things, I am willing to accept they exist. However, if you buy the guitar in person rather than online, you should be able to tell if they are present or not. I personally haven't heard of any "structural" issues with recent LPs that affect the actual use of the guitar, just things like file marks on the fretboard, a thin lip between the fretboard and the neck, and bleeding of stain onto the binding.

So if you're able to try out the guitar, you can go over it with a fine tooth comb to ensure those things which may or may not be a deal breaker to you are present. Like I say, I haven't got any of those issues with mine, but then again, something like a finish bleed onto binding wouldn't bother me. But it's your hard-earnded money, so if that's unacceptable to you, then you shouldn't have to put up with it.

I don't like the changes Gibson made to their lineup this year, so I would recommend you go used, or find one of those limited runs without the new features (wider neck, autotune, etc.)

As an aside, some of the QC complaints such as the binding bleed are actually present in vintage Gibsons that people pay tens of thousands for. As I understand it (never having played a true vintage LP myself) Gibson didn't even smooth the sides of the headstocks on the "holy grail" guitars back in the fifties.

YMMV, etc.

I'm skeptical too, but I'm not sure. All I know is they seem too damn expense for the price

2012-14 was the worst recent years of QC, but I'm unsure of 2015. The 2015 lineup looks bad in my opinion. I hope gibson can get their act together because I love thier history in rock and roll.

The cosmetic stuff doesn't bother me so long as it's not super ovious, but I rather pick the cleaner guitar if all things equal.

The past two Gibson les paul standards sounded a lot like my Epiphone, I want impressed. One was a 2014 and one was a 2013 both used. I have seen reviews and such with some gibsons that can sing right.

Heritage really looks good based off what I have seen. Not a single bad review, just people saying it's better than most of their standard gibsons.


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[voggin]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

I don't think you'd go wrong with a Heritage. There's a guy on the forum here who flips a lot of them (Brentrocks). He could probably hook you up with a good used one.

 

[TRex]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

I don't think you'd go wrong with a Heritage. There's a guy on the forum here who flips a lot of them (Brentrocks). He could probably hook you up with a good used one.

I think I'll see if I can't get a hold of him, thanks

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[Wattage]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

yeah Heritage has never had any QC issues:wrf:

There are any number of reasons not to like Gibson but QC is kind of far down the list IMO.

New Heritages go for real coin just like Gibson, PRS etc.

Look used from a quality shop and buy a quality guitar.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

If you're OK with shipping from Canada or Japan, take a look at a Tokai Loverock, or any of the Edwards (ESP Japan) LP types. The Edwards guitars typically come stock with SDs, but both are pretty similar in terms of build quality with maybe a slight advantage to Tokai. The late 70s / early 80s Loverocks in particular are good, but they're getting pretty pricy on the used market.

I also have to echo previous comments about Gibson QC; I've run into some that had issues, but nothing un-fixable or un-playable. Gibson seems to cut their nut slots for 9s, so plan on having that fixed if you use heavier strings. The worst issue I've seen were frets that weren't leveled properly, but they seem to plek just about everything these days.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

I must say... if you are after a set neck Les Paul then Gibson USA is solid imo. Their QC is actually pretty good compared to a lot of guitar manufacturers on the market. If you are after a nice hand built set neck Les Paul you should contact forum brother orpheo. He builds nice LP's.

 

[RStabler]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

Can't really go wrong with an ESP Eclipse. The older Standard models are now called E-II. All made in Japan. I have one and will be buying another and they are just fantastic. Most are rosewood, also.

 

[TRex]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

Threads like these are what scare me about gibson..

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/76157-quality-control-issues-again/

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-...-time/697836-why-even-buy-gibson-anymore.html

It's not like every single guitar is like this, but when gibson has a good portion of their customers complaining, and Heritage has little to no QC problems nowadays.

Even if I buy in person, I'm scared with could pop up months from now.

Both go for around $1500-2000 used, which is still pretty steep.

I might go check out if that local handmade les paul my local shop owe has been raving about is any good. Last time I was there I was in the mood to try some stats so I didn't try it *facepalm* iirc it was around a grand, which is much more doable than upwards of two...hmm

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[Archer250]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

Tokai Love Rocks

 

[allbutromeo]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

Check out Prestige Guitars, they are a Canadian company and build some nice LP styles in the $900-$1200 range

 

[ledzef]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

Heritage guitars. They are made in the old Gibson Kalamazoo plant the H150 is there Les Paul style guitar.

 

[TRex]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

Heritage guitars. They are made in the old Gibson Kalamazoo plant the H150 is there Les Paul style guitar.

I'm looking at those, and they seem to be the better alternative at the $1500 price point

Tokai Love Rocks

I haven't heard of those, but MIJ with a long history should be good...I'll look into them

Check out Prestige Guitars, they are a Canadian company and build some nice LP styles in the $900-$1200 range

I'll look at them in the morning, looks nice.

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[Boogie Bill]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

I have eleven Gibson Les Pauls and three ES-335s, and I have ZERO QC complaints. I've owned four others over the years, and they were fine guitars as well.

Maybe they have improved over the last few years, but about ten years ago, I started actively seeking out Heritage guitars. I was looking for Gibson quality at a bargain price. Over a period of about two years, I looked at roughly a dozen Heritage guitars to buy.

And every single one of them had not only finish flaws; but several had, to my mind either construction flaws or sub-standard wood. My MIK Ibanez Artstar AS-120 is by far, a better made, better sounding guitar than any of the Heritage guitars I played.

BTW, Hamers often have problems with the finish bubbling up in the neck joint area of the cutaways. This is a well known issue. I love Hamers; I want one, but caveat emptor.

Honestly, if you want a Les Paul....get a LES PAUL. You can play it two ways: get a new guitar with the full warranty, or diligently search for a suitable used guitar. I think the best guitars Gibson makes are their Custom Shop Historic Reissues. But Gibson USA builds fine guitars too. I have four Historics, but I also have a couple of mid-1990's 1960 Classics that are just excellent guitars. And then there are Customs...and there are a lot of reasons why so many metal and hard rock players love these Black Beauties.

Bite the bullet and get a Gibson. Do your homework and find the right guitar for you. And then take CARE of it. In a decade or two or three, it will be an heirloom. And the actual cost will be pennies per day.

Choose wisely...it's a defining moment in your life. Good luck.

Bill

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

^^ This. Don't wimp out and get another copy of a USA Gibson Les Paul.

And I hardly think those 2 links represent a definable percentage of Gibson USA buyers. Mass production has always meant a handful out of multiple-thousands will have some sort of issue. While those of us in the Quality Assurance field would love to be able to reject for every minor quibble, especially on high-priced items that we're making a killing on already, the reality is that what one customer sees as a deal-breaker another customer will barely notice, and yet another wouldn't care even after having it pointed out to them.

The chances that the one who doesn't care either way ending up as a living legend in music are exponentially higher because they focus on what's more important - how does it sound, how does it play, and how does it look from 10 feet away.

It's the screw-counting freaks who quibble about expecting perfection for price.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

The "Fear of Gibson QC" thing is BS plain and simple - Every freaking Les Paul you buy off the wall or wherever will be perfectly playable.

That said - here is the REAL issue: For 2500 to 3500 Dollars, there should not be a smudge, a suggestion of a bump on a fret, a mildly possibly uneven bit of binding, not quite fully flamed piece of wood, etc. And there MIGHT be.

The other truth to the universe is that if you are buying something this personal sight unseen/felt/played over the internet - you need to be prepared to send it back.

Now - all of that said:
#1 Used Gibson - all the quality, less money
#2 ESP EC 1000's
#3 Tokai - Older is better
#4 I like my Dean Cadillacs, but Solteros are great too

EVERYONE makes a quality instrument at the 600 price point or so. And any one of them could have a QC issue as well.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Alternative brands to Gibson

Ime, the past 3 years of Gibson production have been far better than the 10 previous. Finish work, fretwork, nuts, neck angles, playability are far better off the shelf. I have played a ton, and bought two 2014 les pauls. Both Excellent guitars.

Although I am not a fan of the 2015 changes and would not consider buying one used or new, all I have handled have also been put together and finished right.

On the used Market, Heritage and Hamer USA are excellent buys, and Tokai, Burny, Greco, Bacchus and Edwards mong the MIJ imports.