Alternative magnet options: Degaussed, unoriented, short magnet, rough cast, etc.????

[thrashmetl]

So there are a lot of alternative options to normal old fully charged polished magnets. I haven't been able to find a thread that lists the different tonal qualities of all of these alternatives. I'm sure I could dig around for a few hours and find all the answers I seek, but I think it would be useful for everyone if all the answers were compiled in one thread. So what tone do each of these impart in relation to their parent magnet or other magnets? Unoriented A5? Short A5? Short A2? Degaussed A5? Degaussed A2? Rough cast magnets? Etc. If I've forgotten any, don't hesitate to add them. I plan on updating this post as the answers roll in so everything is at the top of the thread.

 

[lazyfinger]

Re: Alternative magnet options: Degaussed, unoriented, short magnet, rough cast, etc.

Here are 2 links that are sometimes used as reference:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/t...g-with-pickups-102-the-humbucker-magnet-swap/

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=221172&highlight=mag+primer

A2 - Huge mids, rounded top, little treble, lots of dynamics, chewy texture, loose low end, low output, very 'vintage'. With the right wind, it's ample mids make a PU sound 'big'. With the wrong wind (or wood) it can sound muddy or flabby.

A3 - Like an A2, but with more treble and lighter on the mids. Mainly suited for the neck slot.

A4 - Balanced EQ, some consider it bland. No big push in treble, mids, or bass. Medium output. Good middle ground for when an A2 is too warm, or an A5 is too bright and scooped. Lets the PU's and wood's natural tones come thru.

A5 - Lots of treble and bass, scooped mids. Sharp high end. Tight low end. Relatively high output. The most common alnico (in it's polished and oriented form).

A8 - Moderate treble, good dose of mids. Firm low end. High output. Could be considered to be a bulked up A4. Suited for the bridge slot. Works in high and low output HB's and P-90's.

A6 - Like an A8, but with less treble. Very rare.

UOA5 - Sounds like a cross between an A2 and A5, with the best of both. Lots of warmth and dynamics, but with a dash of treble and decent output. Another middle ground option between A2's and A5's.

Roughcast - Pitted and lumpy surfaces create a more varied magnetic field. Any roughcast maget has smoother highs, with less harshness. Shifts the EQ slightly downwards. More subtle than an unoriented mag. Usually best in the bridge slot, whereas polished mags work better in the neck (sharper highs).

Unoriented - The internal 'grain' is random (instead of aligned in one direction), making for a complex magnetic field. Highs are softened and tones are more dymanic and 'vintage'. A2's, A3's, and A4's are always unoriented. A5's are almost always oriented.

Also keep in mind that it's the combination of particular mag and pickup wind that delivers the final tone. Just going what particular mag does is a bit unrealistic. JB with A5 is still a middy pickup. Pearly Gates with A2 still has plenty of bite and top end, more so than JB. There are intangible factors about mag characteristics as well that are not clearly outlined here or anywhere, those would have to be experienced at individual level through experimentation. For example, an A2 in JB will sweeten things up for sure, but it will loosen up the bottom end as well in a pickup that is not arguably tight sounding to begin with.

 

[thrashmetl]

Re: Alternative magnet options: Degaussed, unoriented, short magnet, rough cast, etc.

Thank you very much! I definitely understand, I'm just trying to get a general outline of what to expect when I swap these magnets into a pickup and which ones to order to try out and which ones I seemingly will have no interest in.

How about short magnets?

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Alternative magnet options: Degaussed, unoriented, short magnet, rough cast, etc.

If you mean 2.5" vs. 2.25", short magnets don't make any difference.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Alternative magnet options: Degaussed, unoriented, short magnet, rough cast, etc.

I think what Zhang meant was that short mags make very little difference.

Not very noticeable. If anything, they produce a less focussed effect, mainly noticed on the highs (very slightly softer effect) and an immeasureably lower output.

I hope that answer is vague enough.

 

[Guitaraxz]

Re: Alternative magnet options: Degaussed, unoriented, short magnet, rough cast, etc.

Here are 2 links that are sometimes used as reference:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/t...g-with-pickups-102-the-humbucker-magnet-swap/

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=221172&highlight=mag+primer



Also keep in mind that it's the combination of particular mag and pickup wind that delivers the final tone. Just going what particular mag does is a bit unrealistic. JB with A5 is still a middy pickup. Pearly Gates with A2 still has plenty of bite and top end, more so than JB. There are intangible factors about mag characteristics as well that are not clearly outlined here or anywhere, those would have to be experienced at individual level through experimentation. For example, an A2 in JB will sweeten things up for sure, but it will loosen up the bottom end as well in a pickup that is not arguably tight sounding to begin with.

Thanks for the links and Bluman335 quote, I'll give em a good reading tonight.

 

[flavorednation]

Re: Alternative magnet options: Degaussed, unoriented, short magnet, rough cast, etc.

Sorry for bumping, but this is what I was searching for.Might come in handy for others.Thanks for the links!

 

[blueman335]

Re: Alternative magnet options: Degaussed, unoriented, short magnet, rough cast, etc.

Sorry for bumping, but this is what I was searching for.Might come in handy for others.Thanks for the links!

What I do is listen to the PU as it currently is, and decide what I want more of and less of. Then I consider the magnets that might achieve that. It's usually adding or subtracting treble, mids, bass, or output. The most common alnico by far is a polished A5. With that as a starting point, every other alnico gives you less treble and more mids. If you want to keep most of the treble, but soften the high end and add some mids, an A3 is good. If you're after a more vintage sound with more texture and dynamics, an A2 is good, or an UOA5 for a bit more treble. For a warm tone with full mids, more output, but better cleans than a ceramic, try an A8. If you want that, but with the output dialed down, try an A4. A5's and A8's both have a good amount of tight low end; the other alnicos have either less bass or a looser bass. Armed with that, you narrow down your choices.

Roughcasts let you fine tune a little further, by having a little smoother high end; I prefer then on bridge PU's. In the neck slot I use polished mags for the slightly sharper high end. That being said, a RC UOA5 has a sharper high end than a polished A2. In my experience, and that of many others, as long as a PU's wind is in the ballpark for what you want it to do, you can usually get the tone you want with one of the alnicos; nothing sacred about the stock magnet. When the average player has a guitar who's tone he's not thrilled with, he usually: 1) stops playing it, 2) buys an aftermarket PU (often without much thought put into the choice), or 3) gives up and sells the guitar. If it's an HB or P-90, he should first try a couple of different magnets. At several dollars a pop, it's the fastest and most cost-effective way to get the tones you want.