Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

Re: Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

My list

- JazzN: alnico 8. Great as a neck pickup (flutey, slightly honky in the midrange) and as a bridge pickup (great harmonics, dynamically rich, fluid). It's INTANT michael Schenker. Favorite for years

- JB: Alnico II : sweeter, bit spongyier. like a hotrodded pearly. Alnico 4: not as sharp as the original, but very similar.

- 59n: Alnico II: sweeter, not as boomy. more santana. Alnico 4: more jimmy page like.

- Alternative 8: swap in an Unoriented A5 and wow. be blown away. More open, dynamically richer, a bit more top end. Felt like a JB with more attitude but less strength.

- Phat cat: Alnico V. Raunchier, dirtier. Preferably with an A4 next to it.

- Screaming Demon: Alnico 8. More power, not as 'singlecoily' in the single note runs, not as 'dry'.

- Seth Lover bridge: Alnico 4. A bit more power, a bit more sizzle but not super super hot. Very, very good.

- Seth Lover Neck: Alnico III. Sweeter, cleaner, just a damned joy to play.
 
Re: Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

Some awesome answers so far -- I've noticed at least one trend, it seems that an A4 59 neck seems to be popular in a Les Paul. Do you guys find that certain swaps work better in certain guitars than others? Anything that doesn't work so well? Personally, while I liked the Custom 8 a lot in my SG, but I found I preferred the regular SH-5 Custom in my Les Paul. At least at the time.
 
Re: Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

Riley said:
Some awesome answers so far -- I've noticed at least one trend, it seems that an A4 59 neck seems to be popular in a Les Paul. Do you guys find that certain swaps work better in certain guitars than others? Anything that doesn't work so well? Personally, while I liked the Custom 8 a lot in my SG, but I found I preferred the regular SH-5 Custom in my Les Paul. At least at the time.
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Lots of examples. There's frequently comments about '59N's being boomy/bassy in some guitars, most often LP's (and sometimes 335's), which is why A4's are put in some of them. Yet '59N's tend to be fine in SG's. CC's work well in Strats, but some members have said they're too dark in LP's. When I joined, C5's were the most common recommendation for SG's, and when A8's became available, that changed to C8's. JB's are typically praised in bright woods, but are known to fail in some mahogany guitars (Aceman's methodology recently estimated that at 1/3 of the time). Other than this site, I don't know where else you'd get this kind of detailed info.

This is why sound clips are next to useless, and often misleading. If you have a different guitar design & wood, along with different amp, tubes, speakers, & effects, you're not likely to be able to duplicate the tones on a sound clip. People new to aftermarket PU's can find this out the hard way. Good thing about this site is that you can learn to change a PU's EQ and tone to steer it in the direction you want, with a deft use of magnets, pots, resistors, caps, etc. Often the fix only costs several dollars, which is preferable to blindly buying a string of new PU's and being disappointed in how they sound in your guitar, or getting discouraged & selling the guitar itself (which is what many players do). Another benefit is that once you've 'taken control of your tone', you're able to acquire guitars that others have passed, and often able to make them sound pretty good. There's nothing that says that stock PU's are the best fit for any given guitar, due to inherent differences in individual pieces of wood and PU windings. I never expect a new guitar to 'speak to me'. I approach it figuring that it needs a set-up to my liking, and that there's a good chance it may sound better with different PU's. To the average player, this is way more than they bargained for.
 
Re: Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

Riley said:
A4 59 neck seems to be popular in a Les Paul
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The A4 59 neck works best on 24,75"-scaled, 22-fretter, LPs and ESs (aka semi-hollows).

My favorite semi-hollow p'up set is an A3n/A2b-modded Seth Lover set, closely followed by the A3n/A2b-modded, nickelsilver covered '59 set.

/Peter
 
Re: Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

My favorites:

Pearly Gates Bridge with UOA5 - The swap gave it more power, remedied the "thin" sound I was having and made the harmonics jump out even more than before. The overall "tone" remained roughly the same, just made it more powerful and thicker.

Phat Cat Neck with Dual UOA5 - The swap made it much more authoritative and had a big impact on the overall tone and feel. The pickup still got slightly muddy with the gain but was not nearly as muddy as it was stock.
 
Re: Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

Due to the number of people who recommend swapping mags in a JB / '59 set to A2 and A4 respectively, a couple of weeks back I swapped the mags in my set but went with RCA2 in the JB and an RCA4 in the '59 neck.
The guitar is not a Les Paul; it has a 25.5" scale and is double cut, but is all mahogany apart from a koa cap on the body and the rosewood fingerboard. The neck pickup was suffering from the oft cited boominess in the '59 neck. I had never liked that pickup there, but after lowering it slightly below the top of the pickup rings there was a significant improvement...after changing the mag to RCA4 I no longer need to have it so low and the improvement is fantastic.

The JB was an improvement, I wasn´t looking for a dramatic change, just to smooth out the mids a little and it has done that more or less.


I had heard people say the middle position (both on) with a JB2 59A4 wasn´t great so the most unexpected change was that the middle was as good as, if not better than the neck on its own.
 
Re: Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

I will say that I've tried an A2 in a JB, and I just think the JB isn't my thing. I think it just doesn't work for me, no matter what magnet. I have to think it is the wind itself, and a reminder that magnet swaps can't perform miracles all of the time.
 
Re: Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

Mincer said:
it is the wind itself, and a reminder that magnet swaps can't perform miracles all of the time.
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That's the bottom line.

The wind (aka how the wire is wound on the bobbins) sets what I call "inherent tone-footprint" or ITF. A magnet change will more and less "enhance" the ITF in different ways, which may or may not work for you, but in no circumstance will alter the ITF.

Here's a selection of p'ups that, IME, their winds will gracefully take almost any mag swaps: '59s, Seths, Antiquities, PGs, APHs, Customs, '59/Custom Hybrid, '59n/JazzN Hybrid and last but not least, Full Shreds, are the ones that time and time again proved themselves their worthiness.

/Peter
 
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Re: Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

Discharged said:
Here's a selection of p'ups that, IME, their winds will gracefully take almost any mag swaps: '59s, Seths, Antiquities, PGs, APHs, Customs, '59/Custom Hybrid, '59n/JazzN Hybrid and last but not least, Full Shreds
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True, although every mag in those PU's may or may not work for you in the style & genre(s) you play.

I like the stock Seth's & A2P's so much I haven't swapped mags in them yet, although I have used both in making hybrids. Probably will take the covers off a Seth set before long.

I've swapped mags in a few of these that I'm pleased with ('59's & Customs - both very versatile), and one that I could never get dialed in and sold (PG set, must be the wind I don't care for). I have an Ant set in a box that I'll work with again when I'm feeling ambitious (I like Seth's much better).

With hybrids/unbalanced coils (factory hybrids or my own creations), I always put in a warm magnet if it didn't already come with one, for both bridge & neck. Did I just read that Bach to Rock has an A2 in his original '59/Custom? Or was it just me thinking that that's what I'd put in one?
 
Re: Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

Double thick alnico mags are insane! I was expecting them to make the bridge more aggressive, but it ended up deeper and fuller.
 
Re: Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

What an amazing forum this is!

When I joined 10 years ago I only knew very basic stuff. Today, I don't consider myself an expert by any means, but I know an incredible amount about pups, wiring, mags, tone woods, tube types, speakers, etc and how they combine to affect the final tone of the instrument. A lot of this knowledge has been learned from forum members, but most has come from my own experience (which was stimulated by the info learned on this forum). I first learned about mag swapping from Blueman335 and then hybridding from Bach to Rock. Since then I have experimented with different mags in every pup I own (in over 4 dozen guitars) and have created nearly a dozen hybids. When the P-Rails first came out I did an inordinate amount of experimenting with magnet types and pup orientation to come up with some exceptional results and made a great pup from an already good pup.

Following are a few of my favorites:
P-Rails neck with A8 next to the Rail coil and A5 (sometimes UOA5 or A4 depending on the guitar) next to the P-90 coil. Pup mounted in the bridge with the Rail coil next to the bridge and P-90 toward the neck.
Screamin' Demon with A8 used in the bridge. With A2 used in the neck for some really smooth violin-like leads.
C/59 with A4 in the neck, and A8 in the bridge.
C/Demon with UOA5 for a very full tone with clarity but no piercing highs, warm mids, and softer lows.
Jazz with any magnet depending on your specific tonal needs. Until recently I was hesitant to even try the Jazz because of its reputation for being a bright pup. But my experience convinces me that it has a very even/balanced tone and accepts any mag swap with ease. With A2 it becomes an A2P, with an A5 it is similar to a fuller, less boomy '59, with an A8 it moves into Custom 5 territory. But in any case it has clarity and is articulate.

As was said earlier, anyone that can't find their perfect pup in Seymour Duncan doesn't know what they're looking for.
 
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Re: Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

Since this is an educational thread about magnets, I'll make this short and not waste time on colorful illustrations:

SD needs to make an overwound PAF style wind with a double thick A8 and ceramic spacers. The A8 sounds like a pissed off A2, and the ceramics restore high end lost by the extra winds. I've tried it myself on a several overwound PAFs, and it worked on all of them: 59's, SNS's, BKP VHII. Someone needs to get on this.

It'll be the perfect pup in Seymour Duncan that I can't seem to find. :lmao:
 
Re: Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

Chistopher said:
SD needs to make an overwound PAF style wind with a double thick A8 and ceramic spacers.:
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Double-thick A8 AND double thick ceramic spacers?

Well, seems that "subtle" is NOT your middle name, isn't it Christopher? ;)

/Peter
 
Re: Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

Discharged said:
Double-thick A8 AND double thick ceramic spacers?

Well, seems that "subtle" is NOT your middle name, isn't it Christopher? ;)

/Peter
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Not double thick ceramic spacers. Just regular ceramic spacers.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk
 
Re: Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

To further expand on double thick magnets, I would like to spend some time on colorful illustrations. The set I used to experiment with was a pair of Steam Hammers from Iron Gear. These are essentially Duncan Distortion copies, but with two rows of hex screws. They look similar to Super Distortions, but they sound virtually indistinguishable from the Duncan variety.

I messed around with different magnet and combinations for a while, but what I came up with was double thick A4 and double thick A8, both with ceramic spacers. I originally had it in series with a regular A4 and no spacers, but then I decided upon parallel with double thick A4 with the spacers.

I'll start with the bridge. First off, this thing is loud. I recommend using an audio pot for the volume, because with linear pots it can be tricky to back the gain off. With this pickup your volume knob basically becomes a gain knob. Moving on to tone, this thing roars. It has insane mids, especially low mids, with the ceramics helping to restore the highs that are usually lost with an A8. It's excellent for a one guitar band.

The neck on the other hand, is a somewhat different animal. In parallel it's tonally between a Quarter Pound and a P90. It's excellent for thick neck solos and it is possible to coax a jazzy tone from it. But I'd your the type of person who likes the bridge match, you probably don't play jazz.

And I'll end with a warning: this things are about as nuanced as a brick wall, but there is quite a bit of sonic ground covered between the neck and bridge's range of tones. You probably also want 1 meg pots and a bass cut in addition to the normal tone control.
 
Re: Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

Since this is a sticky now, I'm thinking we should list some popular magnet swaps for posterity. Here's what I have:

A4 59n- gets rid of excess bass, preventing boominess in darker guitars.

A2 JB- prevents the classic JB midspike while still maintaining the JB character. Also popular is an A8 swap as it is pretty similar tonally, but with more output and a tighter bass.

A3n/UOA5b- This set of magnets is often recommended for a set of PAF style pickups. The A3 de-emphasizes the bass frequencies in the neck slot, slightly reduces output. The UOA5 does just the opposite in the bridge slot, it beefs up the pickups character a bit and adds a bit more mids, slightly increases output.

Phat Cat Neck A5/A3- When used in the neck gives a midrange growl and single coil clarity. Some people prefer an A4 instead of an A3, bringing it closer to the voicing of earlier Gibson P90s, which used twin A5s. The A4 helps compensate for the difference in winds.

Bridge Phat Cat A4/A8- Similar to a higher output version of the stock pickup, but with more clarity and cut. This pickup will standout in the mix.

I know there are more magnet options out there, but I'll let some other fellas explain them.
 
Re: Alternative Magnets for Duncan Pickups

I experimented a lot with A8, from Alt 8 to C8. I found a great combination in using the Alnico 2 pro and swapping for 8, making an Alnico 8 pro. Keeps sweetness but more agression in a nice Vintage wind.

Dre
 
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