Aluminum wound pickups?

Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

A conducting outer would provide grounding all the way through the coil, which could be worthwhile? Assuming there was something between that, and internal conductor of course.

There's no insulation between the silver outer coating and the copper wire. They are bonded together.

Also, having a ground like that would increase the capacitance the way coax cable does.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

Hey Frank, I heard you on Amps & Axes. Great interview. We have similar backgrounds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

There's no insulation between the silver outer coating and the copper wire. They are bonded together.

Also, having a ground like that would increase the capacitance the way coax cable does.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I realise there's no material in between, just thinking on possibilities if it did etc. No idea how good/bad the capacitance issue would be.
 
Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

I'm not sure of anyone using aluminum magnet wire for pickups, but they would clearly sound different because of the increased resistance. And probably have lower output.

But, typically Higher DC Resistance in k-ohm ( although can be Myth / Depends on alot of things ) is touted as Giving a conventional / passive coil-wound pickup , Higher output Not Lower . I have experienced outputs that totally dont equate in Real Equipment relative to D>C Resistance alone , of course .
 
Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

But, typically Higher DC Resistance in k-ohm ( although can be Myth / Depends on alot of things ) is touted as Giving a conventional / passive coil-wound pickup , Higher output Not Lower . I have experienced outputs that totally dont equate in Real Equipment relative to D>C Resistance alone , of course .

Only it doesn't. Output is determined by the number of turns of wire on the coil, and the strength of the magnet, and some other variables.

The resistance of magnet wire increases as the diameter decreases. So 5,000 turns of 42 AWG might be 4K, but 5,000 turns of 44 might be 7k.
They will both have the same output, but they will sound different.

So, if two pickups are both wound with 42, and all the other parameters are the same, then a 9k pickup will be louder than a 7k pickup.

The thing is as you go to more winds on typical standard size bobbins you run out of space for more wire. So you go to thinner wire.

So now you both have more wire wound, and thinner wire with higher resistance. So it's not directly proportional.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

i said this here -->
But, typically Higher DC Resistance in k-ohm ( although can be Myth / Depends on alot of things ) is touted as Giving a conventional / passive coil-wound pickup , Higher output Not Lower . I have experienced outputs that totally dont equate in Real Equipment relative to D>C Resistance alone , of course .

You said this here --> " So, if two pickups are both wound with 42, and all the other parameters are the same, then a 9k pickup will be louder than a 7k pickup " .


So are You Agreeing or Disagreeing that Higher k-ohm Value = more Output ( winding Details aside ) ?
 
Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

you cant say "winding details aside" since that directly influences the answer to the question. thats like saying a car with more horsepower is faster. it might be true but there are other factors involved that actually determine if that is actually true
 
Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

What's funny to me, is how sometimes you get people saying they have a "hot" version of a production pickup because the DCR is high. For example say a pickup spec is 16k. First, for the sake of the discussion lets assume that everything about the build process is identical, meaning these are both the "same" pickup model wound the same, coming off the assembly line one batch to the next. The turn count is exactly the same. If this is true, then for a pickup to have a higher DCR, would mean that the wire was on the thinner side of spec, either overall or in pockets, or that it was stretched thinner by too much winding tension for example. In other words, in that case, it would be the lower DCR pickup that would sound "hotter" because that one is more efficient, all other things being equal.

Now...I can't tell you whether one pickup has a higher DCR than another because the manufacturer mistakenly put MORE turns of wire on it. That was a general consensus in the days of the PAF, where they just left the machine engaged longer on some than others. But if we assume it's a modern winder with a turn counter and pickups of the same model have the same turn count, then the relationship between DCR and output is inverse. But if it's additional turns that is raising the DCR, then yes that would be hotter. But saying "I've got a JB that reads 17 - 18k!!!" doesn't necessarily mean you have a louder JB than one that reads 16k.
 
Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

Someone mentioned Alumitones earlier in the thread. How do these work again? They seem to be of quite a unique design, which was why I used the Deathbucker version in an Epi Korina Explorer several years ago. They sound killer and never mud out even under heavy distortion. Even in the neck.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk
 
Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

Frank...

So I've got an APS-1 from ~'99 that reads at 5.9K. I've seen the official spec as anywhere from 6.1k to 6.5k. This pickup is just magic in the neck, clear but complex, chewy but detailed. I always thought it was "underwound" and "less hot" than a standard Alnico Pro II, are you saying that the truth may be the opposite?
 
Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

The less winds generally translates into more top end. Or greater efficiency of signal transfer, especially in a given range. Overwind generally means more mids.
The way the ear perceives things, that could make the underwound sound more powerful because of more string attack transmitted.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk
 
Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

I love the Lace Deathbucker.. don't know how it works but it sounds brilliant.

As for silver plated copper..don't know about the benefits (or lack of) as far as pickup winding goes but that stuff is pretty popular for hi-fi inter-connects etc. It definitely makes an audible difference. All my inter-connects are Ecosse silver plated copper which I prefer to pure silver (too bright) & plain copper (nice but the silver plated stuff is more dynamic sounding, while still retaining all the warmth/fullness..)

I use Van Damme instrument cables which are silver plated copper as well & have'nt used another cable since.... again, just going by my ears (which I trust) since I have NO technical knowledge about any of this stuff lol..
 
Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

Oh and CCA (Copper Coated Aluminium) speaker wire for hi-fi .. which is a pretty popular low cost alternative to pure copper, sounds like ass (less of everything) ..another thing is it's brittle as **** & stripping cable ends is a pretty uphill task if you want it to stay intact.
 
Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

Deathbucker has two exposed magnets in an aluminum coil, split. Somehow, the coil is connected to a very low wind transformer. Thence to the output.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk
 
Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

Someone mentioned Alumitones earlier in the thread. How do these work again? They seem to be of quite a unique design, which was why I used the Deathbucker version in an Epi Korina Explorer several years ago. They sound killer and never mud out even under heavy distortion. Even in the neck.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

Alumitones are a single turn pickup. The aluminum frame is essentially a single turn of large diameter wire. The current generated from this is then stepped up with a small current transformer that's attached to the two ends of the frame.

Before the Alumitones they had the Transsensor pickups. They use a thick copper loop instead of the aluminum.

Both pickups were invented by the guy that makes Villex pickups, which I assume are made the same way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

Well, did you have another question that I didn't address? Always here to help.
 
Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

Is it a gimmick? Yes and no. It's a valid alternative to winding magnet wire on a coil. But is it necessary? The advantages they state are precision and consistency. But regular pickups are already very consistent. How much precision is needed? I hand wind pickups and they all come out with very close readings. And the bit they are off is nothing you can hear.
Everything is built to a tolerance, be it massed produced etching in a commercial Fab house, or some schmo hand tensioning wire with a home made winder, it's all down to what those tolerances are and how application specific they possibly can be. It also depends on what that basis of comparison is. I would have a hard time believing precision is even an argument when comparing something being turned out in a FAB house by the thousands, and something being computer wound by the thousands. That argument may have a little more merit if their basis for comparison was the FAB house turning out thousands of pcb's to someby randomly scatter winding each coil with a hand winder, and even then what type of tolerances in percentages are we talking? I'm kind of preaching to the choir a bit here.

mmicky is the whole hype around them. Calling them "world class" is unwarranted. But they are innovative. There's no such thing as the "best" pickups. It's all subjective.
Well you have to sell them somehow. From conception to reality is only half the battle, Making them fly off the shelves is another completely.



.



I've never seen a PCB that was not copper clad. It's an easy material to work with. If you used something else what would the benefits be? All you are doing is changing the DC resistance per foot.
Most most fab houses will offer both silver and gold plated copper traces, but never different conducting alloys. I'm sure the cost, ability to etch the materials, and sheer impractical application comes into play.

The only reason to use a preamp with a pickup is for impedance matching (such as with low Z coils) or for tone shaping.
I would say more for signal transfer, and tone shaping, but that's not the only thing. Amplification seems to be a pretty important one as well.

The interesting thing is that many guitarists would not like the tone of a low Z coil. That includes Alumitones and Fluence. They would find them too bright with lots of finger noise. Almost the way the guitar sounds unplugged.

So it's common to make them sound like high impedance pickups through tone shaping.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's kind of the paradoxical beauty, and drawback of active design. It opens up a whole new world to sculpt with so your not stuck to the relative conventions of passive designs, but at the possible expense of creating something very synthetic even when trying to match the response of typical guitar pickups. With in reason, you can make the preamp do all sorts natural or unnatural things to the pickups response ... fabricate the resonance frequency anywhere in the audio band, or create mutiple ones and sum them, extend bandwidth, creating any kind of frequency response and signal level youre looking for and so on and so on. Now I'm just rambling
 
Re: Aluminum wound pickups?

Ok,
I'd try some aluminum magnet wire if it were easily available. I don't see any listed online in the sizes used for pickups, so I imagine it's mostly for speakers and solenoids.
I'd guess it would be darker sounding than copper, but that's just a guess.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

High voltage transmission lines.:D
- https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Voltage-Cable-500-kv-Acsr_60318896042.html -
High-Voltage-Cable-500-kv-Acsr-Overhead.jpg_50x50.jpg

images
 
Back
Top