Amp control preferences

Amp control preferences

  • a tone control for the reverb effect

    Votes: 1 2.8%

  • a presence control

    Votes: 35 97.2%
  • Total voters
    36
glassman

glassman

Electron Herder
I am in the final stages of releasing my first offering in what will become my own line of amps and need to poll you guys for your opinions on this...

The amp is a rather simple, single channel amp with reverb. It puts out 20 to 25 watts, depending on which rectifier is used (5Y3, 5U4, GZ34 or a SS plug) and will initially be available as a 1-12 combo with a head version coming soon after. It has a single input, volume, treble, middle, bass, reverb and (X) controls...the question I have is what would be most useful (and used)...a reverb tone control or a presence control. I am leaning toward a presence control at this time but wanted to get some other takes.

Thanks in advance

Jerry
 
Re: Amp control preferences

Hey Jerry!

Sounds pretty cool. I'd prefer a presence control myself, since I'd rather my initial sound cut through more, rather than just the ambient sound. (Hope that made sense.) Plus, I'm not always using reverb.

- Keith
 
Re: Amp control preferences

Thanks for the input so far...the forum is currently unanimous in voting for the presence control. Keep em coming...
 
Re: Amp control preferences

Reverb tone would be cool but if its a reverb circuit that uses a tube then you can change the tone with tube swaps.
 
Re: Amp control preferences

It's a no brainer - go with the presence control :)


....and a master volume for players who want to get some breakup at low volumes ;)
 
Re: Amp control preferences

I don't use reverb... I'd rather have an amp with an FX loop where I can insert a delay pedal actually.
 
Re: Amp control preferences

1st - Reverb needs to have dwell, sweep, and tone to work really well.
2nd - Presence is nothing but negative feedback
Last - Give me both...
 
Re: Amp control preferences

Neither?

Reverb volume is usually enough, and I think presence knobs are overrated. I usually leave mine at 0.

The benefits from not having controls I wouldn't use OUT of the signal path would outway the benefit of having them there, IMHO
 
Re: Amp control preferences

Stratman said:
1st - Reverb needs to have dwell, sweep, and tone to work really well.
2nd - Presence is nothing but negative feedback
Last - Give me both...
Click to expand...

1. My blackface Fenders all sound great with just a reverb level control. ;)
2. Presence controls have a capacitor on them that filters out the treble in the negative feedback circuit so that as the presence is turned "up", the treble frequencies are not reintroduced 180 degrees out of phase in the NFC and that makes the treble frequencies sound brighter and a lot more lively. ;)
3. I'd use a presence control - but I don't need any reverb controls other than level if the reverb is voiced as beautifully as the reverb in my blackface Fender amps.
 
Re: Amp control preferences

Thanks to everyone for the responses so far...good information.

I probably should take a little time to clear a few things up...

Master volume: I chose not to include a master volume in this design because, aside from power scaling (and even that has its drawbacks), there is no such thing as a good sounding one. At the very least you lose output tube character and speaker dynamics when turned down to bedroom levels. This amp is all about output tube distortion when cranked up...its preamp is largely clean. I do have a master volume in higher gain designs that I will introduce later.

3 knob Reverb: This is what led me to ask this question in the first place. I like the versatility of the 3 knob reverb units. It would be feasable to offer a variant of the amp with this feature in the future; of course, the presence control and midrange control would have to disappear. As my business becomes more sophisticated, I'm sure it will happen.

Effects loop: This amp really isn't a good candidate for an effects loop. Where it would go in the circuit is relatively clean until you have the amp nearly cranked so there wouldn't be much difference between running time-base effects in a loop or in the front. I am working on an effects loop for future designs and am getting closer to what I would consider acceptable to offer; most effects loops out there seem to fall short of most players expectations. The tipping point for me will be when I have a design that can run a 9 volt effect pedal when the amp is cranked without clipping and no loss in bandwidth...I'm close...but not there yet.

Adam: I agree that simpler is better, particularly in an overdrive style amp like this one. You probably would appreciate the working prototype I have. I built it 13 years ago. It has a volume, treble, bass and reverb control and a jack for the footswitch...that's it...bare minimum. It will nail a BF Fender tone or a Vox AC tone with just a little tweaking of the tone controls. It flirts with Plexi territory when pushed from the front. I have loaned it out to several local musicians to gig with and had it in a local music store as a demo amp for nearly a year. Oh yeah...and it still has the same set of tubes in it that I originally put in it!

My intent is to make my first offering to the marketplace be simple and versitile, yet have recognizable controls that work. I have always thought of presence controls a "nuance" controls that have limited utility; this is what made me pause putting one in. I polled a bunch of my customers and they all, with the exception of one, voted for a presence control. One of them suggested I poll the SD forum to get some "impartial" opinions. Here I am!
 
Re: Amp control preferences

Presence by far. Reverb is an extra tool which on a few occasions maybe useful, but hardly essential for me. Presence isnt essential either, but is very convienient for overall tone shaping.
 
Re: Amp control preferences

glassman said:
My intent is to make my first offering to the marketplace be simple and versitile, yet have recognizable controls that work. I have always thought of presence controls a "nuance" controls that have limited utility; this is what made me pause putting one in. I polled a bunch of my customers and they all, with the exception of one, voted for a presence control. One of them suggested I poll the SD forum to get some "impartial" opinions. Here I am!
Click to expand...

I think this is a good point. An amp can definitely be usable without either one of these controls. However, being a player who basically never relies on reverb, I think a presence control is a plus. That being said, from what I know of amp design (which is not much), the addition of a presence control would cost less than 10 bucks (maybe even 5) to put in on a per-unit basis. I think that feature alone separates it from a bunch of entry-level amps. In other words, I think you would probably get a good return on investment on it.
 
Re: Amp control preferences

glassman said:
I have always thought of presence controls as "nuance" controls that have limited utility; this is what made me pause putting one in.
Click to expand...

I voted for this because it was a vote between presence and reverb tone. I don't find either one a particular necessity, and would be fine without either. All things being equal, it would be nice to have a presence knob, but if adding that control negatively impacted the base circuit tone, I'd rather leave it out.

- Keith
 
Re: Amp control preferences

Pink Unicorn Horsey said:
I voted for this because it was a vote between presence and reverb tone. I don't find either one a particular necessity, and would be fine without either. All things being equal, it would be nice to have a presence knob, but if adding that control negatively impacted the base circuit tone, I'd rather leave it out.

- Keith
Click to expand...

Keith: This presence control, like most (though not all) presence controls will only contribute to the circuit when it is turned up above zero; when it's on zero, the NFB loop functions just like it does in any amp that has one.

Presence controls are strange animals...when operating in a relatively clean output section, they act like a second treble control...when the output section is overdriven they act like a "bloom" control. Unfortunately, many amps that traditionally have a presence control are high wattage amps that don't overdrive thier output sections until the sound level is at coluseum levels.
 
Re: Amp control preferences

glassman said:
Keith: This presence control, like most (though not all) presence controls will only contribute to the circuit when it is turned up above zero; when it's on zero, the NFB loop functions just like it does in any amp that has one.

Presence controls are strange animals...when operating in a relatively clean output section, they act like a second treble control...when the output section is overdriven they act like a "bloom" control. Unfortunately, many amps that traditionally have a presence control are high wattage amps that don't overdrive thier output sections until the sound level is at coluseum levels.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation. In that case yes, I'd want a presence control.
 
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