Amps Without an Effects Loop: Is there a solution?
- Thread starter Mllerrin
- Start date
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Amps Without an Effects Loop: Is there a solution?
You're asking for a soultion but what is the problem?? Is it just that the amp in question has no FX loop...if so just run the FX up front.
You're asking for a soultion but what is the problem?? Is it just that the amp in question has no FX loop...if so just run the FX up front.
ratherdashing
Kablamminator
Re: Amps Without an Effects Loop: Is there a solution?
It depends on the amp and the effect. One phaser may sound great while another may sound like poop. It's not worth worrying about unless you experience the problem.
It depends on the amp and the effect. One phaser may sound great while another may sound like poop. It's not worth worrying about unless you experience the problem.
krankguitarist
Krankitupologist
Re: Amps Without an Effects Loop: Is there a solution?
Time-based effects like delay, reverb, chorus, etc. tend to sound cleaner after distortion. Some people dig em before though...its all about personal preference. I'm personally the kind of dude that puts his phaser in the FX loop, some people like em before they hit the amp.
Yes, there are solutions, but not without compromise. You can:
A) Run the FX in front of your amp, and get your dirt from the amp. You may not get the sound you're looking for from your effects this way though.
B) Find a distortion pedal you like, run your amp clean, and place your effects that you'd normally place in the FX loop after the distortion pedal. Same sort of an idea as the FX loop, but you're not getting your dirt from the amp anymore.
C) Find an amp tech and have em install an FX loop. Problem solved. But not reccomended for vintage amps
. And, most likely, expensive.
Time-based effects like delay, reverb, chorus, etc. tend to sound cleaner after distortion. Some people dig em before though...its all about personal preference. I'm personally the kind of dude that puts his phaser in the FX loop, some people like em before they hit the amp.
Yes, there are solutions, but not without compromise. You can:
A) Run the FX in front of your amp, and get your dirt from the amp. You may not get the sound you're looking for from your effects this way though.
B) Find a distortion pedal you like, run your amp clean, and place your effects that you'd normally place in the FX loop after the distortion pedal. Same sort of an idea as the FX loop, but you're not getting your dirt from the amp anymore.
C) Find an amp tech and have em install an FX loop. Problem solved. But not reccomended for vintage amps
. And, most likely, expensive.
PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: Amps Without an Effects Loop: Is there a solution?
People say, but do you agree? I agree with the delay portion on my amp, but I prefer the phaser in front. As was previously posted, if you do not like the way one of your effects sounds in front of amp distortion, your only options are to find a different version that might sound better or use pedal distortion.
People say, but do you agree? I agree with the delay portion on my amp, but I prefer the phaser in front. As was previously posted, if you do not like the way one of your effects sounds in front of amp distortion, your only options are to find a different version that might sound better or use pedal distortion.
Bludave
New member
Re: Amps Without an Effects Loop: Is there a solution?
Hendrix, Jeff Beck, Clapton, and SRV all played with amps that did not have effects loops. IMHO effects loops typically degrade the signal. I have Several amps, but most of my amps do not have effects loops. What you really have to do is spend some time experimenting with the pedal order. What seems to work best (at least form me) is to get reverb, delay, chorus first in line, then OD and Wah, to guitar. This works form me, but it is a little more comliplicated. I don't really use to many of the coloring effects, such as delay, or chorus when I am using a lot of drive also. I find, espicially with delay that the delay rate has to be in sinc with the natural decay of the notes or it begins to clip the sound a bit. It can take a little time figure out where the delay needs to be set to "FIT" with the notes. In many cases it is easier to add the delay after. either through the sound man when playing live or to add it in the mix when recording.
Hendrix, Jeff Beck, Clapton, and SRV all played with amps that did not have effects loops. IMHO effects loops typically degrade the signal. I have Several amps, but most of my amps do not have effects loops. What you really have to do is spend some time experimenting with the pedal order. What seems to work best (at least form me) is to get reverb, delay, chorus first in line, then OD and Wah, to guitar. This works form me, but it is a little more comliplicated. I don't really use to many of the coloring effects, such as delay, or chorus when I am using a lot of drive also. I find, espicially with delay that the delay rate has to be in sinc with the natural decay of the notes or it begins to clip the sound a bit. It can take a little time figure out where the delay needs to be set to "FIT" with the notes. In many cases it is easier to add the delay after. either through the sound man when playing live or to add it in the mix when recording.
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PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: Amps Without an Effects Loop: Is there a solution?
My only argument with the greats not having an effects loop is that most of them didn't use a delay into the front of a distorting amp. EVH is the prime example of one that did, but it was a nice fat echoplex set to shirt delay just to fatten the tone. I'm sure there are others too, but I bet most of the early delay you hear was through the board as you mentioned.
My only argument with the greats not having an effects loop is that most of them didn't use a delay into the front of a distorting amp. EVH is the prime example of one that did, but it was a nice fat echoplex set to shirt delay just to fatten the tone. I'm sure there are others too, but I bet most of the early delay you hear was through the board as you mentioned.
PUCKBOY99
Irish Flagologist
Re: Amps Without an Effects Loop: Is there a solution?
And there ya' go !!! :bigok:
I have 3 amps w/no fx loops & run it just like this. :wink:
And there ya' go !!! :bigok:
I have 3 amps w/no fx loops & run it just like this. :wink:
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: Amps Without an Effects Loop: Is there a solution?
Effect loops....
Will only use that if I had a 19" rack.
Effect loops....
Will only use that if I had a 19" rack.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Amps Without an Effects Loop: Is there a solution?
Eddie's effects, other than the phaser, in the old days (Marshall days) were actually run *after* the amp. Yes, after. How? He ran the amp in to a dummy load, then to the time-based effects (flanger, echoplex and a univox echo) at line level, then to outboard power amps and onward to the speakers, one side wet, one side dry. The only other thing between the guitar and amp was a frown-faced EQ.
I don't like delay, reverb or echo before overdrive or distortion. It has to be after to work for me. If you want to do the Joe Walsh thing with an Echoplex, running it out front is fine.
Eddie's effects, other than the phaser, in the old days (Marshall days) were actually run *after* the amp. Yes, after. How? He ran the amp in to a dummy load, then to the time-based effects (flanger, echoplex and a univox echo) at line level, then to outboard power amps and onward to the speakers, one side wet, one side dry. The only other thing between the guitar and amp was a frown-faced EQ.
I don't like delay, reverb or echo before overdrive or distortion. It has to be after to work for me. If you want to do the Joe Walsh thing with an Echoplex, running it out front is fine.
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Re: Amps Without an Effects Loop: Is there a solution?
Dang! Wrong again! Well, maybe not. I'm still pretty sure the phaser went into the front of the amp...
Dang! Wrong again! Well, maybe not. I'm still pretty sure the phaser went into the front of the amp...
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Amps Without an Effects Loop: Is there a solution?
Yes, the phaser was out front with the EQ, the rest was post dummy load. There was another EQ between the effects and the power amps too.
Yes, the phaser was out front with the EQ, the rest was post dummy load. There was another EQ between the effects and the power amps too.
marvar
New member
Re: Amps Without an Effects Loop: Is there a solution?
Pedals were DESIGNED to be run in the front of the amp, most don't sound right in an FX loop- IMO.
The impedances of pedals are different than what comes out of the fx loop- hence they usually don't sound so good.
Also IMO, the less stuff you have in the signal path INSIDE your amp, the more pure tone you get.
There are exceptions of course, but this is my .02
A+++Effect loops....
Will only use that if I had a 19" rack.
Pedals were DESIGNED to be run in the front of the amp, most don't sound right in an FX loop- IMO.
The impedances of pedals are different than what comes out of the fx loop- hence they usually don't sound so good.
Also IMO, the less stuff you have in the signal path INSIDE your amp, the more pure tone you get.
There are exceptions of course, but this is my .02
ratherdashing
Kablamminator
Re: Amps Without an Effects Loop: Is there a solution?
Whenever people say things like "pure tone" my eyes start to glaze over. Does that phrase even have any meaning?
Unless you're plugging your guitar straight into a solid state keyboard amp or a pair of top-of-the-line studio monitors, you don't have "pure" tone.
Whenever people say things like "pure tone" my eyes start to glaze over. Does that phrase even have any meaning?
Unless you're plugging your guitar straight into a solid state keyboard amp or a pair of top-of-the-line studio monitors, you don't have "pure" tone.
heavydutysg135
New member
Re: Amps Without an Effects Loop: Is there a solution?
Yes there is a solution. You can run your amp into a load box such as a hotplate. Run a line level signal from the load box to another power amp that is not clipping. You can place your time based effects in between the load box and the clean power amp. This places your time based effects after both the pre-amp and power amp section which is really the best place for them. Another benefit of using this setup would be that you can get your tone including power amp saturation at any volume level. This is what Allan Holdsworth does, and chances are if it is good enough for him then it is good enough for you too.
Yes there is a solution. You can run your amp into a load box such as a hotplate. Run a line level signal from the load box to another power amp that is not clipping. You can place your time based effects in between the load box and the clean power amp. This places your time based effects after both the pre-amp and power amp section which is really the best place for them. Another benefit of using this setup would be that you can get your tone including power amp saturation at any volume level. This is what Allan Holdsworth does, and chances are if it is good enough for him then it is good enough for you too.
