AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

[EDX]

just wondering if you guys have take a look into these

the AMT warmstone is a solid state tube equivalent, what?, well it's an electronic component designed to reproduce the functioning of vacum tubes, in a solid state component, they even had the same size.

since they are solid state they dont need bias adjustment and they will last as long as the amp itself

so that means that with this new invention you can actually turn your tube amp into a solid state without loosing your tone.

what do you think guys?, would you try them?, is it a good idea or a total nonsense?

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

"Without losing my tone"... I'll believe that when I hear it.

My 73 Sunn model T still sounds awesome with its original tubes...

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

I have a set of Wattgrinders, which is similar. I got them purely for experimentation. In some amps they work well as a reverb driver or phase inverter. Do not care for them at all for gain.

 

[Mark_McQ]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

what do you think guys?, would you try them?, is it a good idea or a total nonsense?

Put it this way, Jet City tried something like this in the recent past, and have you seen any amps running them, or heard anyone discussing them?
I'm sure I read that Mike Soldano experimented with the idea too years ago, and Soldano's still run tubes these days. So I think that gives you an idea of how they compare.

 

[dominus]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

I wanted to try them but they were more expensive than cheap tubes, so not really worth it in my case.

AMT's preamps are pretty impressive though, so they *may* be able to pull it off where others have failed. Just because others haven't been able to do something doesn't mean that it can't be done.

 

[sosomething]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

I'll always give stuff like this a second look, if only for the fact that there will come a day when traditional vacuum tubes are no longer available, or are such a rarity that the cost premium places them out of reach for most people.

We ain't there yet, but these look promising. AMT is a company that could pull it off.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

I have been watching these things for a while. The moment something sounds good enough I'll be the first in line to yank out my tubes. AMT also has some power tube replacements, which I'm far more interested in.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

I have a set of the Jet City retro valves.. In a modern amp vs average russian or chinese tubes the blue and yellow sound decent (Dont like the red one at all it sounds buzzy and compressed). Pretty hard to tell apart if your only listening. They do change the feel playing a bit in a way... hard to describe but its like when you dig harder or lighter there seems to be a limit on it.

But.. if you move them to a vintage type circuit they dont do nearly as well. They really kill the dynamics of my little supro. Its just like someone put a wet blanket over the amp.

For me they didnt have a clear cut advantage over real tubes with a few drawbacks so now they live in my travel case as gig back up replacements that will handle life being bounced around as spares better than tubes will.

 

[IMENATOR]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

In my opinion the goal shoud be to use those preamp tubes to make lightweight amps. You know, the real preamp circuit based on tubes with these instead then the power section to be solid state, I did not get to buy my tube combo because 24 kg for me sounded like a bad idea for my bad knee. Then a 15 kg box I an handle. I don't mind losing 10 % of 15% of the tone if I can reduce like 50% of the rig weight, and as time goes they mail nail it some day. My jaw droped when I sae Eric Johnson advertising the Blues Cube.

 

[zzmoore]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

Why do they need Heater/Filament pins.?
That is one big advantage of a SS Recto Plug-In.
a la the Weber Copper Cap

 

[devastone]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

I'm guessing they are using the heater voltage to generate their DC voltages to power the electronics. Replacing a tube rectifier with a SS rectifier is totally different as the ss rectifier is just a diode bridge which is totally passive, i.e. doesn't need to be powered.

If these sound good, no reason they can't build a good sounding SS amp, well, they do with the Stonehead (I've never personally used one though). They have just packaged the electronics into "tube" packages so they can be plugged in, no reason to do that if you are building an amp from the ground up. I have used quite a few of their preamps, both tube and SS (FET) and they do sound good. I tried an E2 and it was too "metal" for me, but I really like my SS-11 and I recently picked up a P2 that sounds really good, although not as dynamic as the SS-11, don't know if that is because it isn't tube or because the whole circuit is so different.

I am waiting for some of the JC Amber Retrotubes to try in the SS-11, if they sound good, they should be a lot more reliable than tubes. There is a seller on ebay that has some of the 3-packs for $40, he's blowing them out because JC is becoming a Musician's Friend/GC only brand.

 

[zzmoore]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

OK...I guess that makes sense. Each tube supplies its own low voltage regulated, B+ so to speak.
But yeah.....the logical conclusion would be to ditch the "tubes" and just build a conventional SS amp.
I suppose this is a smart segue for tube guys to get on board.
Time will tell.
good luck

 

[devastone]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

FWIW, B+ is the high voltage, low current plate voltage. That's the one that bites people from the big caps used to filter it, it's usually 300+VDC, so the caps have that voltage stored in them when they are charged. And yes, for the uninitiated, it does tickle quite severely if you accidentally hit it. Mike Soldano said he burned a hole in his finger once, ouch!

I'm guess they are using the 12V heater supply to generate the internal supply voltage for the "tubes". Much easier to work with and plenty of current to draw from.

 

[zzmoore]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

I did not know that the term B+ applied to SS. I was just using it in jest.
Typical "solid state" are high current/low voltage.
Would be interesting to know what these are exactly.
It has all been presented before...SS plug ins that supposedly mimic the high plate voltage and swings of tubes.....grids vs plates.
Is there 12VAC on the heaters.?

 

[EDX]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

these things are analogues to tubes, so they are components that works like tubes, without the drawbacks of real tubes how much they acurately replicate the tubes phisical and electrical charactesristics (the desired ones) is what matters

 

[devastone]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

They should mimic the amplification characteristics of real tubes, ss just doesn't need 300V to do it. Tubes are quite inefficient, but that's part of why they sound like they do. But yes, even ss needs a reference voltage, it's just much lower.

I'm guessing they have designed the circuit to use whatever is on the heater circuit, 12VAC or 12VDC, easy enough to do.

FWIW, I got some of the Jet City Retrovalves last night and got to try them for a few minutes in my AMT preamp, they sounded good, I need to spend some more time with them before I give more details other that they seem voiced a little darker than the tubes I had in it, but that's probably by design.

 

[devastone]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

Just a follow up on the Retrovalves, they sound good, but not like tubes, they don't seem to have the complexity, especially in the highs. They also seem to have less sustain. Probably would work fine as a PI, but I wouldn't recommend them in the tone shaping stages.

FWIW, I tried a pair of amber RVs in an AMT SS-11, so in a "real" amp, YMMV, etc... although it seems like I've heard similar things about them in amps. Haven't tried the AMTs, based on their FET based preamps I've tried, I would probably have higher expectations for them, but I got a great deal on the RVs and thought I'd give them a shot.

My <$0.02...

 

[LLL]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

WeberVST has "Copper Cans" (IIRC) which serve a similar function for tube rectifiers.

 

[devastone]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

Rectifiers work different than amplifier tubes, but the Copper cans do mimic the sag and other properties of a tube rectifier over just replacing the tube rectifier with a diode bridge. I wouldn't hesitate to use one of those at all.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: AMT WarmStone "Tubes"

I'm all for the day that we can ditch tubes!

But I don't see that day coming any time soon. Having owned or at least played through some really great non-tube gear in my lifetime (including the 11R and Kemper)... I still cling "bitterly" to the gear-that-glows, because at the end of the day... tone/feel are all that matters to me any more. When I can plug into an amp without glass tubes and experience the same quality interactive experience, as with tubes... then I'll be on-board. "Joy" and "ecstasy" are a couple of descriptors that come to mind... and I don't recall my non-tube experiences ever being quite that passionately felt in 30+ years of doing this. It's just not the same [yet]. Amps with glowing tubes versus amps without are like human beings versus androids for me. A state-of-the-art modeler or SS amp has millions of times more processing power within its circuits. And yet, a simple tube circuit has more LIFE in it... when it's getting power of course. Seriously... tube amps are like "magic".