Power amp suggestions for Axe FX, Kemper, etc.

ErikH said:
I don't think they do.

For any modeling unit like the AxeFX, Kemper, HX Stomp, etc., just get a powered FRFR and be done with it. Can even run 2 of them and have your own little array of sound right there. Then feed the FOH from one of the FRFR's output. With the speaker cab sims in modelers now (meaning they are so much better), why use anything else with them?
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Then what did he mean? Using a quilter the same way he uses the PB (which I already have) with a valvulator?

At home, my modeler sounds so good with the preamo tube section of my tape echo machine before the PB but I’m not taking that to shows, defeats the whole point. I am considering getting this

https://www.effectrode.com/products/effects-pedals/glass-a-triode-buffer/

Very small profile, real tubes running at full voltage. Might be just the thing I need for that little bit of extra warmth and cut that having a real tube stage noticeably adds without adding extra freight to my fly-rig.
 
Aceman said:
Why power + cab?

Just get your powered monitor of choice.

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Because I'm thinking of them as being like amps in that you simply turn them up loud enough to get to the audience or you mic them and then run that to FOH. I haven't had live playing experience in 20+ years.

I was concerned a powered monitor or FRFR wouldn't be loud enough to use with an audience. Keep in mind I've got one foot in the old passive/active days of studio monitors, and my experience with these were passives seemed to have superior sound quality over an active monitor if you had a good power amp. This was also in the 90s.

As far as monitoring, I thought having my own monitor (which would deliver my guitar sound only) wouldn't be that helpful if I'm also hearing IEMs or monitors delivering the full mix. It seems a lot of IEM mixes can be a personal taste thing. I have never used them and am not sure if I would want to go to the trouble of having a pair custom made for me.

Whenever we played, we had students from the other departments at MI set up the live equipment. I never had to set up my stuff on my own--just plug in, tweak the amp, and let them know if we could hear ourselves well enough on stage.

And I would prefer something that can be used as a portable live rig and practice rig. Investing in a Katana seems like a toy when several hundred dollars could at least go toward a used Axe FX II.

Fairly sure we were using on stage wedges and whatnot back then. You could hear yourself, but it was clear you were "behind" the music. Often sounded like hearing myself underwater. This combined with the sound of the actual cabs behind me could be a little disorienting. Drums could be loud and boomy and live sounding but not sound like what was coming out up front. Singer was often buried but not overly so.

I'd prefer hearing FOH mix--the same that the audience hears.

I need to do more research into how a modern live signal flow works to find out what I need.
 
El Dunco said:
Then what did he mean? Using a quilter the same way he uses the PB (which I already have) with a valvulator?
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No idea. But subbing out the PB for a Quilter doesn't make much sense if you have a pre-amp already. The PB is just a power amp. The Quilters have a preamp/power amp in one small convenient package. Sure, you could bypass the preamp and use the effects loop return with an outboard preamp. But in this case for the OP, he needs a powered FRFR.
 
Inflames626 said:
Because I'm thinking of them as being like amps in that you simply turn them up loud enough to get to the audience or you mic them and then run that to FOH. I haven't had live playing experience in 20+ years.

I was concerned a powered monitor or FRFR wouldn't be loud enough to use with an audience. Keep in mind I've got one foot in the old passive/active days of studio monitors, and my experience with these were passives seemed to have superior sound quality over an active monitor if you had a good power amp. This was also in the 90s.

As far as monitoring, I thought having my own monitor (which would deliver my guitar sound only) wouldn't be that helpful if I'm also hearing IEMs or monitors delivering the full mix. It seems a lot of IEM mixes can be a personal taste thing. I have never used them and am not sure if I would want to go to the trouble of having a pair custom made for me.

Whenever we played, we had students from the other departments at MI set up the live equipment. I never had to set up my stuff on my own--just plug in, tweak the amp, and let them know if we could hear ourselves well enough on stage.

And I would prefer something that can be used as a portable live rig and practice rig. Investing in a Katana seems like a toy when several hundred dollars could at least go toward a used Axe FX II.

Fairly sure we were using on stage wedges and whatnot back then. You could hear yourself, but it was clear you were "behind" the music. Often sounded like hearing myself underwater. This combined with the sound of the actual cabs behind me could be a little disorienting. Drums could be loud and boomy and live sounding but not sound like what was coming out up front. Singer was often buried but not overly so.

I'd prefer hearing FOH mix--the same that the audience hears.

I need to do more research into how a modern live signal flow works to find out what I need.
Click to expand...

My live rig for years has been a powered Kemper into a 4x12 (greenbacks) or 2x12 (creambacks), for practice or rehearsals, I ran into a Mackie Thump12 with the bass turned all the way down. I've even run that Thump with a bass DI and been happy with the results. Live, I like having a speaker behind me, so I can turn and induce feedback whenever I want. I also like the consistency of the same speakers, regardless of amp type I run. The only thing I would change is getting the rack vs the toaster, but really happy with the sound.

I did run a couple gigs opening with just a DI and hate relying on a monitor mix to hear myself. At least with a live cab on stage you can move around to find that spot where you can hear your guitar without other instruments drowning you out. Bear in mind that you could use one output to an FRFR type powered cab and one to FOH, as long as you aren't running stereo. Since you don't have a power amp now, a powered monitor with just your signal would be fine on stage.

As for hearing the FOH mixFOI find that curious. Most people prefer to hear themselves a bit louder than they should be in a good FOH mix and that causes conflict when everyone wants a little more of themselves in that mix. When I mix, I try to be pretty passive in tone shaping, but there are still times when you have to fix a tone that isn't playing well with the other instruments.

TLDR; don't sleep on an FRFR type cab, or even a powered PA monitor, as they can be useful and portable
 
chadd said:
My live rig for years has been a powered Kemper into a 4x12 (greenbacks) or 2x12 (creambacks), for practice or rehearsals, I ran into a Mackie Thump12 with the bass turned all the way down. I've even run that Thump with a bass DI and been happy with the results. Live, I like having a speaker behind me, so I can turn and induce feedback whenever I want. I also like the consistency of the same speakers, regardless of amp type I run. The only thing I would change is getting the rack vs the toaster, but really happy with the sound.

I did run a couple gigs opening with just a DI and hate relying on a monitor mix to hear myself. At least with a live cab on stage you can move around to find that spot where you can hear your guitar without other instruments drowning you out. Bear in mind that you could use one output to an FRFR type powered cab and one to FOH, as long as you aren't running stereo. Since you don't have a power amp now, a powered monitor with just your signal would be fine on stage.

As for hearing the FOH mixFOI find that curious. Most people prefer to hear themselves a bit louder than they should be in a good FOH mix and that causes conflict when everyone wants a little more of themselves in that mix. When I mix, I try to be pretty passive in tone shaping, but there are still times when you have to fix a tone that isn't playing well with the other instruments.

TLDR; don't sleep on an FRFR type cab, or even a powered PA monitor, as they can be useful and portable
Click to expand...

Thanks for the excellent answer, chadd.

It sounds like:
1) I could get away with a small FRFR and direct to FOH for many situations.

2) I could monitor my mix back through the FRFR.

3) For other situations I could use power amps and my cabs I already have. My rationale here is that most of the signal that will come through will be guitar and so guitar cabs won't have to reproduce the whole signal unless I use IRs and such, things that really should be sent to FOH or run through FRFRs.

4) I need to have experience using wedges and IEMs since every venue will be different.

5) It would be a waste for me not to use my Carvin 4x12 and Randall 2x15 anyway, so perhaps a power amp isn't bad to have if not use.

I am thinking Axe FX II-$700-800 used. PS700 used one day may be $500. Small FRFR may be $300-500?

For less than $2000 I could have a decent practice/live rig. Again, it makes splurging on a high end Katana less appealing.
 
As far as wanting to hear complete FOH mix, I get what you are saying. You want to hear yourself slightly more than anyone else.

My desire to hear FOH is so I can hear what the audience hears. It's kind of like recording. While tracking you may boost yourself, but at the end of the day you want to hear the entire balanced, mastered mix as a finished product.

Hearing these things at the same time is what concerns me, and I guess as a performer a sacrifice will have to be made to emphasize one's own part in the mix and you will just have to trust FOH or listen to FOH later.

In 2000 I used to bring a small cassette recorder to MI student performances and place it in the front row of seats to get an idea of how I sounded. It didn't sound great (some songs were better than others depending upon location), but it gave me an idea of how I sounded better than listening to my own mix in isolation.

If possible I would prefer to have a FOH mix after every show so I could hear myself and improve afterward.
 
DankStar said:
If you get a little PA/powered speaker, you may want to pick it up off the ground sometimes with a stand. Gets a little bassy down there. Many are kinda too tall with huge bases (more for DJs), but I just ordered this shorter one that seems to fit the bill.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MiniSpkStd--gator-frameworks-gfwspk0250-mini-speaker-stand
Click to expand...

Thanks so much, guys. I record often but am ignorant on live sound. Such variation in venues also doesn't help.

Are there bass trap sort of things sold for them too, DankStar? I'm thinking of the ones they have for monitors sometimes.

FRFRs didn't even exist to my knowledge last time I shopped for live gear.
 
Inflames626 said:
Thanks so much, guys. I record often but am ignorant on live sound. Such variation in venues also doesn't help.

Are there bass trap sort of things sold for them too, DankStar? I'm thinking of the ones they have for monitors sometimes.

FRFRs didn't even exist to my knowledge last time I shopped for live gear.
Click to expand...

Im not sure about the traps, I’ve never used them. FWIW my experience with FRFR speakers so far has been at home and they’ve sounded better when I’ve gotten them up off the floor.
 
You do not want to monitor any mix of any kind through the FRFR other than your guitar sound. From the FRFR feed the FOH. If you need to hear anybody else in the stage floor monitors, you get a separate monitor mix from the sound board for that floor monitor. The FRFR continues to be your guitar only. Some like having their guitar in the stage monitor as well. I know I do in some situations.
 
Inflames626 said:
Because I'm thinking of them as being like amps in that you simply turn them up loud enough to get to the audience or you mic them and then run that to FOH. I haven't had live playing experience in 20+ years.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the world is over that.
 
ErikH said:
You do not want to monitor any mix of any kind through the FRFR other than your guitar sound. From the FRFR feed the FOH. If you need to hear anybody else in the stage floor monitors, you get a separate monitor mix from the sound board for that floor monitor. The FRFR continues to be your guitar only. Some like having their guitar in the stage monitor as well. I know I do in some situations.
Click to expand...

This is the way I've always done it (when I do it).
 
A bunch of AxeFX players are using Matrix GT1000fx 1u/2u or GT800fx when using a guitar cab.
Some are using Crown XLS-1502.
Lately some discovered the TC Bam200 bass amp to be a very good little amp for modelers (some like it more than SD power stage 200). Look for some threads where someone posted a flat bass/middle/treble for it. They are hard to find, I ordered mine in February (in Canada) and still waiting for it.

Fender just release FR-12 and FR1-10 power cabs. They're getting very good reviews from Axe-FX players.
If you want a good FRFR monitor, have a look at the EV PXM-12MP
Atomic CLR is well regarded but it seems they will go out-of-business soon.
Redsound MF10 and Elis-8 are also well regarded but you need to crank loud them to sound good.

I personally use an EV ZLX-12P with my modelers, sounds good for the price and I can use it as my rehearsal PA (also as my practice bass amp, for outside party and for karaoke).
 
Good portable Power Amps .... ( not in particular order of quality or preference) ....

1. Any of the Seymour Duncan Power Stage amps ( beware of the Power Stage 700, your unborn children will come out of the womb with a limp !!!)
2. Any Quilter
3. Crate Power Block
4. EHX Magnum 44
 
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