Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

[Icarusfire]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

Getting back to your original post, have you tried editing the reverb setting on the BR-80? Your question about how you tweak the EQ and amp settings suggests that maybe you haven't.

I have a BR-600 that I have only just started trying to use properly and I'm finding it requires quite a bit of time with the user guide to figure out how to get the best out of these things. Lots of nice features but the user interface isn't exactly intuitive!

It seems to me the big advantage of these devices is their self-contained nature. If you can figure out how to work them and find workable guitar and drum sounds then they have everything onboard that you need to make decent quality amateur recordings. That makes them easily portable and usable in environments where you can't make a lot of noise.

Most of the preset patches are horrible but they demonstrate the capabilities of the modelled amps and effects, and usually you can find at least a couple to use as a starting point for creating your own. I think it's worth spending the time to really explore and understand the onboard features before pursuing the path of connecting other stuff, which inevitably brings its own complications to the equation.

So, could you edit the reverb setting, or perhaps use a delay instead? Maybe you've already tried this and you still can't live with it, in which case just ignore me.

Yeah tnx, I am messing with it since 3 days..damn there is too much options to try out, and yes maybe if I find the right settings for amp and distortion then reverb will sound better and less muddy..someone advised using a 2x12" simulation which helped a lot after I also messed with the microphone placement sim

But I also wonder if I can use WAH pedal infront of modeled amp with good results? I think that's safer than using distortion pedals?

 

[Simon_F]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

But I also wonder if I can use WAH pedal infront of modeled amp with good results? I think that's safer than using distortion pedals?

I've used a wah and a phaser in front of my Roland Cube 30 modeller and it sounds OK. Despite what I said above I'll probably try them with my BR-600 too. Try it and see if you like the result.

 

[astrozombie]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

A $400 tube amp will absolutely get it's doors blown off with any decent modeler.

lol what

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

Analog pedals aren't designed to work with digital modellers.

They work just fine, I use them with my digital modeler and they work perfectly.

Seriously, i am kind of offended by your attitude. I have over 10,000 posts here... i have been playing for most of my life and it has been my job to advise people on guitar gear for 3 years.

You are a digital modeling troll dropping your useless 2 cents in any thread that mentions it. You know nothing about modeling, yet continue to type, type, type away whenever you see a thread that has anything to do with digital modeling. You probably didn't set out to be a modeling troll, but you have effectively become one whether or not you realize it.

Oh and FYI, bullying of new members is not how Seymour Duncan builds their brand. New members are the lifeblood of any organization and you shouldn't show your ass to them on a regular basis.

Some of us know quite a lot.

To the OP... you don't actually have an effects loop. You have effects that are grouped into insert and loop FX categories. I'm pretty sure the "loop" effects are the reverb and whatnot you can add to your recorded tracks after the fact (in post).

try recording the track dry without much reverb and add some in after it is recorded.

Watch your input and output levels with this unit, it can distort rather rapidly and without much warning. With digital modelers, we absolutely must not overload the input stages... overloading the output stage will create a similar crappy sound.

Go ahead and use the wah. It will sound perfect and you won't have any problems as long as you make sure that you aren't overloading the inputs.

Overloading the inputs on a digital piece of equipment is never a good idea. Analog gear is much more forgiving and can give off a pleasing distortion when overloaded... not so with digital. There is a line to cross with digital that you NEVER want to cross.

 

[NecroPolo]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

As a recording engineer and a touring player myself, in the studio I tried anything before everything under the sun and I never got pleasing results when I put an analogue od/ds pedal before any digital amp emulation. Analogue emulation is a different thing. All Tech21 gear I used were rather friendly with OD pedals and AMT preamps tend to work exactly like the real thing.

If you want a problem-free and organic sound, hit an AMT preamp (about $100) of your style and use its cab emulation out, record the dry signal (bypass everything inside the BOSS, just feed the signal to the recorder) and the output of the reverb pedal. Check this, it's a some way similar setup to that:



The signal flow that I used: geetar -> AMT P1 cab sim out -> BOSS NS2 -> Rocktron Tsunami (here we go stereo) -> BOSS DD6 -> Alesis Midiverb (okay you can't get that in a stompbox) -> recording preamp

Here you can find info about AMT gear:

http://www.amtelectronics.com/

Check demos

- NP out -

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

to the OP...the way digital modelling stuff is designed to work is that they can pretty much do everything on their own. A powerful modeller has a thousand ways of tailoring every aspect of your sound. If you can't get close to the sound you are after with your existing modelling hardware/software, trying to shoehorn in analog hardware wont improve things. In reality, digital gear gets impeded by trying to do that kind of stuff. You need to look at dialing in the sounds in your existing unit better. If that doesnt work, then consider changing your rig either to a more powerful digital setup, or perhaps an all analog (preferably tube amp based) setup.

 

[spudler]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

wow, I was reading this and actually I am offended by the people who totally jumped completely off the OP's original question and started arguing about what amp costs what, someone plays guitar so he will pay for quality recordings Bla Bla Bla. BTW I and almost anyone I know could care less if you have 1 post 10,000 posts or 10,000,000 Posts when you drop the Op's original question so you can go on a egotistic rant about how rich,smart,intelegent, or lack of you are it is quite offending and I do not blame the original Poster at all for getting frustrated and expressing it.
If I offended anyone well good maybe you needed to be offended and 1 more thing FU.
To get to the original question The Boss unit is a 8 Track recorder correct not an Amp as some Replies had stated. I will tell you I have tried to add some analog Pedals to a Digitech GNX4 which is kinda what you have but with a Huge amount of other Features (before someone Opens mouth to insert foot) the GNX4 has onboard 8 track recorder but 2Gb limit on CF card, Phantom power, DBX Mic preamp with XLR connector etc. The GNX4 totally hated and created some of the most horrific sounds I have ever heard. Something about the Guitar Preamp just going Psycho with any type of pedal added between guitar and the GNX4. I have been trying to add a TTM Pedal to the Digitech RP 1000 I have and have had no luck even with the Stomp Loop and Amp loop I have found they do not play well together so I highly doubt if you are thinking of adding a distortion Pedal along with a reverb Pedal ( as you had stated you wanted distortion pre-reverb pedal) I agree with Alex R 100% he hit the Dysfunction directly on the head, I am not sure why these units mix like oil and Water or get along like Betta's in the same tank. But I have found that it gets real frustrating and no matter what I have tried not a darn thing has worked.
I may not be like some with teh ability to say I have played on huge amounts of expensive amps and tried a ton of pedals but from what I have I would hate to see you waste more money on pedals etc. that in the end you find do not work like you hoped.
I just hope my reply was helpful to the ORIGINAL POSTER or Thread Starter.

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

http://soundcloud.com/necropolo/andreas-wallstrom-and[/SOUNDCLOUD]

That was all kinds of AWESOME!

I can put any pedal I want in front of my POD X3 Live or obviously in it's effects loop. Any of my vintage pedals sound just fine.

Your BOSS unit may not be as forgiving... I'll bet that your reverb is overdriving a bit because your levels are too hot. BOSS/Roland reverbs are very good, so I'll bet it is the levels.

Just add the reverb in post via insert effect and your reverb problems should be over.

 

[astrozombie]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

i know is this unrelated...but i love my boss digital reverb. RV-5.

 

[NecroPolo]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

@zenmindbeginner: Thanks I'm glad that you like it.

That was all kinds of AWESOME!
Your BOSS unit may not be as forgiving... I'll bet that your reverb is overdriving a bit because your levels are too hot. BOSS/Roland reverbs are very good, so I'll bet it is the levels.

Just add the reverb in post via insert effect and your reverb problems should be over.

Do you mean, this track? No, input levels were okay and I don't have a BOSS recorder, it's a Focusrite audio interface. I just wanted it to be powerful so what you can hear is the external front-end tube compressor / preamp that was pushed until it started to f'n bleed and I pushed everything even harder and beyond when mixing and was really happy with committing a loudness war crime

 

[Icarusfire]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

Watch your input and output levels with this unit, it can distort rather rapidly and without much warning. With digital modelers, we absolutely must not overload the input stages... overloading the output stage will create a similar crappy sound.

Overloading the inputs on a digital piece of equipment is never a good idea. Analog gear is much more forgiving and can give off a pleasing distortion when overloaded... not so with digital. There is a line to cross with digital that you NEVER want to cross.

Thanks for great advices, but how can I practically apply this information? OR in other words how and where can I watch the input and output signals?

I can hear it gets very dirty when I record multiple guitar layers, even the guitar effect changes, can I simply turn down the amp volume in the modeler and signal will be ok?

What I am doing in modeler is; distortion full gain + clean amp JC 120, full volume, %20 overdrived + 2 x 12 speakers with microphone centered and I now get a very good sound, reverb problem kinda solved..but as I said it gets very distorted when I record multi-guitars.

I also use 20 $ sennheiser headphones, I dont know if a 100$ full spectrum speaker will make much difference but since I cant turn volume up too much, I didnt want to invest on that.

 

[NecroPolo]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

Thanks for great advices, but how can I practically apply this information? OR in other words how and where can I watch the input and output signals?

I don't know your recorder at all but there must be some kind of level / signal overload indicator there. Just keep an eye on that. Depending on the dirtiness of overdrive / distortion, signals go from peaky (clean) to thick (dirty). Most of the time, if there is no proper info about signal levels, decreasing the input volume until pleasant results should always work well.

 

[dominus]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

My current modeling setup sounds better than the Marshall (JCM2000), Peavey (5150), and Mesa (Triaxis) gear I had previously.

It's all in how you set it.

 

[Reload in 5]

it gets very distorted when I record multi-guitars.

more layers=less distortion per layer

-----
Not sent from a PC......or a red delicious.....but from a robot with a human appearance.

 

[Icarusfire]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

My current modeling setup sounds better than the Marshall (JCM2000), Peavey (5150), and Mesa (Triaxis) gear I had previously.

It's all in how you set it.

And what that gear/setup might be?

 

[Icarusfire]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

I also noticed that, when playing and recording on a jam track my guitar solos kinda get lost and muddy in the mix on lower strings when I am soloing fast. Any tips on tweaking how can I get a clean definitive tone cutting through the mix? I lowered the bass and increased the mids in amp, but not much help.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

you need to accentuate certain frequencies in the mix on some tracks and cut attenuate them on others so the various tracks are not competing for the same frequencies.

 

[Icarusfire]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

you need to accentuate certain frequencies in the mix on some tracks and cut attentuate them on others so the various tracks are not competing for the same frequencies.

that's a good advice tnx, so if i have 3 guitar tracks they should ideally all have different frequencies? meaning even they use the same amp and distortion settings they should use different EQ settings and filters?

 

[dominus]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

And what that gear/setup might be?

Peavey's Revalver, using free third party IRs for cabinets.

 

[NecroPolo]

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

Peavey's Revalver, using free third party IRs for cabinets.

I used them back in time when they were called Alien Connections, before ReValver was sold for Peavey or something. Very good call, one of the best software modellers in my opinion.