Another problem with the SD tone chart.

[twoheadedboy]

A little issue I've discovered:

The SD tone chart claims that the SD Vintage Soapbar has an EQ of 5/5/7. It also claims that the SD Phat Cat has an EQ of 6/5/7. I've tried the Phat Cat in 3 guitars - A mahogany RG, an SG and a Firebird. I've tried the Vintage Soapbar in a friend's PRS, my Reverend Slingshot and a Gibson Les Paul Junior. In ALL cases, the Phat Cat has been way brighter than the Soapbar, which goes against the SD description. That, combined with the Phat Cat being described as "p-90 tone in a humbucker size" makes SD's description of the pickup to be very misleading. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of the Phat Cat. It's an amazing pickup, but it's really somewhere in between a P-90 and a PAF vibe. Very growly with more top and bottom than you usually see in a P-90. I'd just like to see it described more accurately. If the Phat Cat truly is 5/5/7, then the Soapbar should be 5/6/5 by comparison.

/rant :dance:

 

[WICKED LESTER]

Re: Another problem with the SD tone chart.

Listen I love duncans pups but the tone chart and sound clips are just terrible :yell:
I am glad i did not use the tone chart or even thier clips for a decision maker :beerchug:

 

[Artie]

Re: Another problem with the SD tone chart.

I agree. I don't use the tone chart or the wizard for sound recommendations . . . I use the Trading Post.

Artie

 

[twoheadedboy]

Re: Another problem with the SD tone chart.

Yeah man. The clips really are hilarious. I've listened to them on a hi-fi stereo with two other gearhead guys, and we couldn't even guess at which pickups we were listening to. All we could tell is when the tone sounded less like killer bees and more like killer bees. I think the strat/tele clips are okay, but the p-90 and humbucker clips are awful.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Another problem with the SD tone chart.

I think a lot of people forget that different ears, styles and setups make for most of these differences... wheras most of us base our decisions on what we hear through OUR setup, the tone chart is more "universal", taking into account different amp/guitar setups, the psychology of "what do I WANT it to sound like", and of couse different styles and ears... And of course even then the final "values" are subjective, SWD himself may write a totally different Tone chart than say Evan or MJ...

I´m not saying the Tone chart is accurate or "more" accurate, it could be totally off on some pickups... but either way, as long as you´re not comparing pickups in the exact same guitar, ther are too many variables to make a real Judgement IMO....

Perfect example: I always thought the invader was quite bright, Until i put it on one of MY guitars in my setup, then I realized just how dark it really is compared to some others

 

[twoheadedboy]

Re: Another problem with the SD tone chart.

Zerb, I see what you're saying, and I know there are psychological factors that come into play here. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way about the Phat Cat/Vintage Soapbar though. Having compared across 3 guitars for each pickup, all through amps that I've used before, I feel that I have some basis for comparison.

 

[madguitar26]

Re: Another problem with the SD tone chart.

to my ears the duncan distortion (on the duncan cd)sounds like my Jb in my strat into the classic 50 full blown with bass to the max.take away the bass and add mids sounds like the cc.
go figure

 

[Metalman_666]

Re: Another problem with the SD tone chart.

While the tone chart may be less or more accurate to some people, you have to at least give SD and crew the credit for taking the time to provide all the specs they do to consumers or SD fanatics for free. They probably spent hours upon hours doing all this work to benefit us, and whether or not the chart is entirely accurate shouldn't be an issue. We're given a rough idea of how the pickups sound and such, so I think while we might have some minor, insignificant beef with these valuable resources that were painstakingly created, let's leave them alone.

Seymour and co. have done an outstanding job with evaluating their products and building their website, and allowing us the use of some incredible resources such as the tone chart, sound clips, tone wizard, FAQ's, free schematics, and the like. So I think we should salute them instead of complain!!

:headbang: rock on Seymour Duncan!

 

[twoheadedboy]

Re: Another problem with the SD tone chart.

I do think SD deserves some credit for providing specs that other companies do not, because it kind of takes away from the mystery of why a pickup sounds like it does. However, if they didn't provide the specs or guides, a lot of people would probably not bother with SD and go to somebody with whom they could be sure of exactly what they were purchasing. In that sense, all the specs, info and guides are just marketing tools that happen to be very useful to the consumer.

They definitely deserve my respect for taking the trouble to provide the info. Problem is, I find some of the stuff so misleading that it would probably be better if SD didn't provide the info at all.

 

[BowerR64]

Re: Another problem with the SD tone chart.

Na man they are right, you got the wrong pickup. Since there is no markings on the pickup to tell what model you have how do you know? See what happens?

Least with EMG you can say, na i had an 81 because the logo is silver and its to harsh. I have a duncan pickup and the owner told me its a screamin demon but i just took his word for it what it is. I have no idea now what it is.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Another problem with the SD tone chart.

Na man they are right, you got the wrong pickup. Since there is no markings on the pickup to tell what model you have how do you know? See what happens?

Least with EMG you can say, na i had an 81 because the logo is silver and its to harsh. I have a duncan pickup and the owner told me its a screamin demon but i just took his word for it what it is. I have no idea now what it is.

????????

Duncans (esp humbuckers) also have quite clear model markings on them , the demon goes so far as to have a single row of allen pole pieces as an additional "marking" (Done for tonal reasons but helps ID as a side effect)

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/faqdescr.shtml#labels:rolleyes:

 

[twoheadedboy]

Re: Another problem with the SD tone chart.

Na man they are right, you got the wrong pickup. Since there is no markings on the pickup to tell what model you have how do you know? See what happens?

Least with EMG you can say, na i had an 81 because the logo is silver and its to harsh. I have a duncan pickup and the owner told me its a screamin demon but i just took his word for it what it is. I have no idea now what it is.

Yeah.... no. My pickup says on the bottom that it's a Phat Cat bridge model, and there's no mistaking a Phat Cat for another SD pickup.

 

[Kelsey]

Re: Another problem with the SD tone chart.

I seem to remember the EQ of the Phat Cat was originally listed as 4-6-7, so I was surprised to see the new listing. However, one clue to the difference in brightness between the Phat Cats and the P90s is the difference in the listed resonant peaks for these pickups. While I'm not really sure how the resonant peak really works (despite the info provided by SD), I think it does provide an accurate indication of the overall brightness or darkness of a pickup. If you look at the P90's, they all have resonant peaks of around 5 or lower, whereas the Phat Cats are above 6, much like some HBs. I think that's the key spec that underscores the difference you're hearing -- and that I hear as well. This works when I compare different Tele pickups, too (e.g., the JD vs. the 5/2 Tele lead). It doesn't tell you whether the pickup is full of mids or whatever, but it does seem to indicate how bright the pickup will sound overall.