Another p'up swap, and some "splitting" observations.

[Artie]

I just swapped out the JB, in the bridge of my Patriot, for a Duncan Custom. The JB was a great pup, but was a bit overpowered by the Distortion. The Custom seems to be a perfect match. (Probably because they're both ceramic mags.) These two play beautifully together. If the 59's in my Predator are the old, wise bluesman, these are the young, upstart rockers. In fact, these two guitars, together, would make a great rythm/lead pair.

(btw - the Custom, is the one that I field-stripped in this thread. I got it back together, but not without problems.)

While I had the guitar apart, I also added a simple DPDT on-off-on switch to be able to do an inside/outside coil split. Oddly enough, this is the first time I've ever split a pup, with the exception of my Stag Mags. But thats a whole different thing. Stag Mags are, for all intent and purpose, two singles mounted side-by-side. This is the first time I've split true humbuckers.

Both, the Distortion in the neck, and the Custom in the bridge, sound killer when split. I'm amazed at how "Strat-ish" they sound. (Maybe, even better than the SM's.) I can't believe I haven't tried this before.

Here's something I observed, that I'd love to hear others opinions on:

The difference between the outside and inside coil of the neck pup was negligable. The difference between the inside and outside coil of the bridge pup was more noticeable, but I believe thats because of the close proximity to the bridge. The outside coil, closest to the bridge, was too shrill and thin. So, my great conclusion is - it really doesn't make sense to go to the trouble of doing inside/outside coil splitting. Using a simple push/pull pot to split to the inside, (slug), coils, is really all thats necessary to get that cool "split" sound.

I'd love to hear others opinions who've tried this.

Artie

P.S. I believe the Patriot has joined the Predator as far as being a guitar thats "dialed-in". I don't believe I'll be changing this one anytime soon.

(Now I just have to figure out where to put that JB.) :laugh2:

 

[tone4days]

Re: Another p'up swap, and some "splitting" observations.

hi artie - thanks for the write up

i had done inside-outside switching (with the mag swap) on my 540s and on my brian moore .. this gives me the 'prs' type combinations when combining ...

i agree that there is not much difference between the coils on their own or in combo with the duck in the middle (meaning either will do well - as you said) ... but i find a great (useable) difference between inner and outer in parallel combination ..

cheers
t4d

 

[Artie]

Re: Another p'up swap, and some "splitting" observations.

... but i find a great (useable) difference between inner and outer in parallel combination ..

cheers
t4d

Hey T4D; could you expand on what you mean here? I have mine wired up only in parallel - I think. When I split mine, I continue to use the 3-way in its normal fashion. So, I'm just selecting the single-coils as if I had a two-pup Strat.

 

[Arkitkt]

Re: Another p'up swap, and some "splitting" observations.

Interesting.

I use the outside coils (screw) of a JB and a Jazz on my Strat. IMHO, the split JB doesn't sound shrill at all. Maybe is has something to do with the ash body and the rosewood slab??

 

[Marcel]

Re: Another p'up swap, and some "splitting" observations.

I use the inner coil of the JB when split.
It sounds very fat and i find it bassy under high gain not thin at all! It has a twangy sound when you hit the string! When i switch too series this twang goes away and the sound gets a bit brighter (but it's more mids i think) and a bit more saturated (but not much)!

I have the screws (bridge side) set very high so that the inner coils are more than 2 mm away from strings when played on the last fret, while on the screw side it's just 1mm away!
Thats against my theory that the JB lose bass when it's set low!

I'm interested on how the outer coil would sound alone!

Clean split sound is nice too no question....

 

[Artie]

Re: Another p'up swap, and some "splitting" observations.

I have the screws (bridge side) set very high so that the inner coils are more than 2 mm away from strings when played on the last fret, while on the screw side it's just 1mm away!

Thats interesting that you did that. That compensates for the "problem" that the SD FAQ gives as the reason why their diagrams always split to the slug coil. The screws, extending down below the pup, shift the magnetic field down away from the strings. What you've done, is bring the magnetic field back up to the strings - where it belongs.

Very cool.

 

[Marcel]

Re: Another p'up swap, and some "splitting" observations.

Do you mean the magnetic field of both coils compensate each other "far " away from the strings?!
Ah I have too think about it. That's good I'm just repeating electrodynamics...
This problems always make my head smoke coz u can't calculate it easily you always have to think twice ! Electrodynamics isn't that trivial....

Btw I've done this coz it seems to give me a fatter humbucking sound without getting muddy! Butnut gave me the tip and he has it from the faq I think!

 

[Artie]

Re: Another p'up swap, and some "splitting" observations.

Sorta like this:

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Another p'up swap, and some "splitting" observations.

Good post! Thanks Artie.

For the bridge pickup, I prefer the tone of inner coil...the one furthest from the bridge. The string is moving just a little more by that point and the tone is thicker.

For the neck pickup I prefer the coil closest to the neck because that's where a Strat pickup would be: right under the second octave harmonic.

That's hard to achieve though without reversing the neck pickup in the mounting ring so that slug coil is the coil nearest the neck. But that looks weird! :laugh2:

So I just go with the two inner coils and forget about what I'd prefer.

Lew

 

[tone4days]

Re: Another p'up swap, and some "splitting" observations.

Hey T4D; could you expand on what you mean here? I have mine wired up only in parallel - I think. When I split mine, I continue to use the 3-way in its normal fashion. So, I'm just selecting the single-coils as if I had a two-pup Strat.

sorry, i guess i was using too much shorthand

first, yes i only combine the humbuckers (whether split or not) in parallel .. i havent mastered series - and to tell the truth, i dont find series combination very 'toneful' on the P type megaswitch in my brian moore

i have a stock ibanez 5 way switch (the superswitch was too big to fit in the uberthin 540s body cavity) ...

in position 1, i can get screw coil alone / both coils (internal series), or slug coil alone ...

in position 2, i can combine the middle duckbucker in parallel with either of those 3 options from position 1

in position 3, i can combine the outer coils of the two humbuckers in parallel, the inner coils in parallel, or both pickups as double coils in parallel

in position 4 its the duck and the 3 bridge choices

in position 5, its the 3 bridge choices as in position 1

now, without muddying the picture further, i have a push/pull that lets me get the duck by itself in pos 3 instead

better?

t4d

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Another p'up swap, and some "splitting" observations.

Something else about humbuckers: I've been told that because the two coils in a humbucker are reverse polarity and reverse wound relative to each other that the string harmonics that lay between the two coils are cancelled. Both coils pick up those harmonics but since those two coils are reverse polarity, those harmonics don't get reproduced. Which is why a humbucker with perfectly balanced coils sounds warmer and less bright than a humbucker with one coil wound a little hotter than the other - like the Pearly Gates for example. If one coil is wound hotter, then both coils are not picking up those harmonics in the 1" space between the coils identically and there's not as much cancellation of those harmonics.

I don't know if that's true but it makes sense.

Kinda interesting...

Lew

 

[Artie]

Re: Another p'up swap, and some "splitting" observations.

better?

t4d

Yup. :laugh2:

At first, I thought that maybe you were combining the inside or outside coils as if they were one big, wide 'bucker, rather than two singles. I see now.

 

[Marcel]

Re: Another p'up swap, and some "splitting" observations.

Sorta like this:

ahh now i've got what you mean, I thought too complicated!

 

[Artie]

Re: Another p'up swap, and some "splitting" observations.

For the bridge pickup, I prefer the tone of inner coil...the one furthest from the bridge.

Yup, I agree.

For the neck pickup I prefer the coil closest to the neck because that's where a Strat pickup would be: right under the second octave harmonic.

I'll have to listen to mine some more, over time, but I'm not sure I can really hear a difference between the two coils on the DD.
Edit: I should rephrase that. I can clearly hear a difference, but I can't clearly say that one sounds better than the other. They're just different.

Something else about humbuckers: I've been told that because the two coils in a humbucker are reverse polarity and reverse wound relative to each other that the string harmonics that lay between the two coils are cancelled. Both coils pick up those harmonics but since those two coils are reverse polarity, those harmonics don't get reproduced. Which is why a humbucker with perfectly balanced coils sounds warmer and less bright than a humbucker with one coil wound a little hotter than the other - like the Pearly Gates for example. If one coil is wound hotter, then both coils are not picking up those harmonics in the 1" space between the coils identically and there's not as much cancellation of those harmonics.

I don't know if that's true but it makes sense.

Kinda interesting...

Lew

Very interesting. Something else to "mess" with. :laugh2:

 

[St_Genesius]

Re: Another p'up swap, and some "splitting" observations.

I'm a big fan of the DD-DC combo and will be putting that combo in yet another guitar soon. But I'm kinda tempted to do somethign different this time: a magnet swap.

My understanding is that what I'd end up with is a slightly boosted Custom and a slightly diminished Distortion, which I think could be quite cool.

 

[Artie]

Re: Another p'up swap, and some "splitting" observations.

For the neck pickup I prefer the coil closest to the neck because that's where a Strat pickup would be: right under the second octave harmonic.

Lew

I was just doing some more listening and measuring. Sure enough, the center of the pole on the neck pup of my Strat is 19.25" from the inside of the nut. The center of the screw pole of my DD, on my Patriot, is also 19.25" from the nut. The center of the stud pole, is 20".

Both coils of the DD have a killer single-coil sound. Subtley different, but worth retaining both. The screw-coil seems to have a tad more high-end. A bit more "jangle". The stud-coil counters with a subtle smoothness, and richness, but still keeps that single-coil "tone".

(Dang . . . now I sound like I'm writing the SD catalog.) :laugh2:

Anyway, I'm going to keep the switch that lets me select inside/outside coils. I just wish I could find a "neater" way to incorporate it into the pickguard. I'll work on it.

Artie