Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

[SJ318]

God Almighty,
When I angle my strat block claw STRAIGHT, and I get the open G to pull up to A#, the open B goes to C# and the open E goes to F. period. End of story. There is no Carl V. TwighLight Zone for Trem-blocks. As Great as he is. And he is a very great player no doubt. May I ever be as good as him.
ANY, ANY way I angle my brass or pig iron block on either of my expensive, or cheap as bad dirt other strat claw, and I get the OPEN G to A# - the B goes to C# and the open E goes to F!!!!!! NO MATTER HOW I ANGLE THE DARN BLOCK.
I Can't get it to do otherwise-God's sake! As my Dad would say-GOOD NIGHT! If G goes 1.5 steps, then B goes 1 step and E goes .5 steps. 1&1/2-1-1/2.
Steve Buffington

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

I think he does it more for the tuning stability he claims not for note pitch.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

Angling the claw is an easier and faster way to achieve the desired results - at least it is for me when I'm setting up a tremolo.

One desired result being tuning stability and the other being that when I pull up on the bar the open G string stops exactly at an A#, the open B string raises and stops exactly at a C# and the high E stops exactly at a F.

I have a Snark tuner on the peghead of my Strat while I'm doing the set up to make sure the pitch raises and then stops exactly at those desired pitches.

But there's more than one way to do most things. I just stick with the method that works with the least effort for me.

If your method works for you, and it's the least effort for you, than keep doing it your way.

But Carl's method is not BS because it does work and the tremolo does return the strings to being in tune.

If it didn't work, then it would be BS.

But it does work so it's not BS.

If I said it was that the only way to do it, then that would be BS - but I've never said that and neither has Carl as far as I know.

Angling the claw is just one way to do it that works, and the set up takes the least time and the least effort, for me.

No one, as far as I know, has said it's the only way to set up a floating tremolo.

If the OP believes that I have said it's the only way or that Carl has said it's the only way then that belief truly is a myth.

 

[XSSIVE]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

The angle of the claw has nothing to do with the interval of note you get on a pull up at all. The interval between notes is based on the amount of float you're using and that alone, you can then balance that tension with a ton of different spring and claw options. You can get a strat trem to float 1/64" off the body or 1" off the body and anything between. The height you chose to float the trem determines where a note ends up on the pull up. You're obviously not getting a full step up with a 1/64" float and you'll get more than that with a crazy high float. You can also float a strat trem with 2 springs, 3 springs 4 springs or even 5 by just adjusting the distance of the claw and based on the tension of the springs used. You'll need more lighter tension springs or a claw closer to the end of the cavity to compensate for the string tension than you would if you used fewer heavy gauge springs. You can probably float a strat trem with a reverse Verheyen claw (assuming you have the correct heavy and light springs to do some testing to find the balance point) and it will work just the same as long as you equal the spring tension with the string tension, which is all that matters.

Does the angled claw work, of course it does....but so do several other combinations of claw distance along with quantity and tension of springs you could use.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

Like Mike said the angle of the claw has nothing to do with pulling the bar back...that all depends on the amount of float you have, the gauge strings you use and what you tune to.

Angling the claw, not angling the claw, 2 springs 5 springs, hard springs, soft springs, etc...thats all about pushing down on the bar.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

Does the angled claw work, of course it does....but so do several other combinations of claw distance along with quantity and tension of springs you could use.

That's right. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

The right way is the way that works and is the least effort for the guy doing the skinning.

 

[aleclee]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

Thing is, there's nothing special about angling the trem. What affects the range of the up-bend is the amount of float. While angling the claw is one way to achieve that, it's not accurate to suggest that the angle, rather than the trem angle, is how you achieve the desired result.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

Thing is, there's nothing special about angling the trem. What affects the range of the up-bend is the amount of float. While angling the claw is one way to achieve that, it's not accurate to suggest that the angle, rather than the trem angle, is how you achieve the desired result.

I disagree with that.

At the very least, what's special is that it makes setting up a floating tremolo easier - at least it does for me.

But I also think Carl's method also sounds better.

Here's what we're talking about, BTW:



Eric Johnson does much the same thing - only he accomplishes it by using four springs: three on the bass side and one on the treble side.

Just to be clear, Eric leaves out the spring under the B string.

Same idea: increasing the tension of the springs on the bass side of the tremolo.

Increasing the spring tension on the bass side, either using Carl's method of angling the claw or Eric's method of using three springs on the bass side, sounds better to me.

I'm inclined to trust in the methods used by two known virtuosos like Carl and Eric - and by what my own ears and intuition tell me.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

I like coffee...

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

I like coffee...

Me too.

Guatemalan especially.

And I make the best French Press Guatemalan on the planet! :rocket:

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

 

[David Collins]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

This concept is one of simple physics, and the beauty of physics is that true is ultimately true and false is false, indifferent to anyone's individual beliefs.

The arguments made here regarding the influence on trem claw angle to pitch differentials across the strings as the trem is pulled back are patently false, period.

What other variables may have been changed or how observations were made through trial and error which could have led Carl to this incorrect line of causal relationships, I do not know, but mistakes were irrefutably made in the process of coming to this conclusion. It happens to the best of us, we all make conclusions and associations at some point which later prove to be incorrect. This is simply one of those instances, case closed.

If you have a certain process which brings you to the results you like, that's great. To paraphrase a quote from a colleague of mine, if you believe that using a special chisel to carve the braces tickles the wood fairies that live inside to make them dance, and your instruments always sound better when you do this, by all means keep tickling the fairies.

When advising others on controllable factors to yield repeatable results under varying circumstances however, I feel a more objective standard of accuracy should be held to. If you were to set your instrument up by these instructions it is certainly possible the results may end where you hoped, but this would be purely by happenstance. The bridge geometry, the radius at the saddles, the individual intonation points relative to the fulcrum, these all contribute to achieving these goals. The lateral distribution of tension at the back of the tremolo block however, will irrefutably contribute 0% to the differences in pitch offsets between strings.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

Well, again: I think I'll trust the insights and observations of respected and well known virtuosos like Carl Verheyan and Eric Johnson over unknown internet gurus - like myself.

Wait a minute - did I just say that?!? :laugh2:

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

What I'm looking for is the following (to emulate the pedal steel minor to major shift):
E - Half Step rise (to F)
G - Whole Step rise (to A)
Try the above over C.

I'm close but the G to A is still a touch flat. (13 cents flat would actually be perfect to nail the major third)

In order to hit these intervals I need a larger gauge G to raise overall tension, right?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

What I'm looking for is the following (to emulate the pedal steel minor to major shift):
E - Half Step rise (to F)
G - Whole Step rise (to A)
Try the above over C.

I'm close but the G to A is still a touch flat. (13 cents flat would actually be perfect to nail the major third)

In order to hit these intervals I need a larger gauge G to raise overall tension, right?

Have you heard anyone who can do that with a Strat vibrato? If so, who?

I can do pedal steel licks but I do it with my fingers.

 

[ExplorersRock]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

Me too.

Guatemalan especially.

And I make the best French Press Guatemalan on the planet! :rocket:

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Mmmmmmm. May I have a cup?

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

Have you heard anyone who can do that with a Strat vibrato? If so, who?

I can do pedal steel licks but I do it with my fingers.

I have not heard anyone else do it. I have just started setting up a true floating bridge, previously I decked it or I set up a minimal float for vibrato only.

I think I mistyped, if the G raises a whole step, the E is flat in its half step rise. I think this would require either a smaller G or bigger E to work. (I am using 11's, so certainly no bigger E) Maybe I'll see what a .017 would do as a G.

 

[d1dsj]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

Well I've ordered one along with a brass block and raw vintage springs and 'm hoping that it makes setting my G&L Legacy up easier and with better tuning stability. We shall see!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

Mmmmmmm. May I have a cup?

Absolutely!

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That’s specious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn’t work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It’s just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don’t see any tigers around, do you?
[Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money]
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
[Lisa refuses at first, then takes the exchange]