Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

[J E C]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

Lew and David, I like both of you guys and appreciate you thoughts, incites and in put. I have my own thoughts on this matter and can see both points of view. You both have made some good arguments. There is no contest. Can we please put it to rest and move on.
Thanks, John......See ya on the other side

 

[Artie]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

Interesting thread. I should probably "butt-out". But let me toss this against the wall and see if it sticks:

I think, if I'm interpreting this discussion correctly, that the crux of the argument is whether or not the solid steel trem block can flex, when spring forces are applied to the bottom, asymmetrically. If I missed the proverbial boat on that one, ignore the rest of my post.

I work in a physical/dimensional/optics lab that utilizes quite a few huge granite tables. They all sit on massive steel frames that would make the chassis of your pickup truck look like Tinkertoys. I just calibrated one of them last week. That table is 4' x 8' x 18" thick. I place a Talyvel-5 in the middle and level it. (A Talyvel is very high sensitivity electronic level). Once I have it level, I can place two fingers on one corner and press down enough to actually see a deflection on the meter. If I can bend that 18"-thick slab of granite with two fingers, I'm thinking that maybe I can flex a steel tremolo with the trem-arm.

But, perhaps the degree of flex is whats relevant here. Hearing a pitch-shift in the strings is probably a magnitude or more of flex than would require a Talyvel to detect.

Artie

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

Lew and David, I like both of you guys and appreciate you thoughts, incites and in put. I have my own thoughts on this matter and can see both points of view. You both have made some good arguments. There is no contest. Can we please put it to rest and move on.
Thanks, John......See ya on the other side

Exactly(yawn)...Stop now and go play instead.:smokin:

 

[uOpt]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

Interesting thread. I should probably "butt-out". But let me toss this against the wall and see if it sticks:

I think, if I'm interpreting this discussion correctly, that the crux of the argument is whether or not the solid steel trem block can flex, when spring forces are applied to the bottom, asymmetrically. If I missed the proverbial boat on that one, ignore the rest of my post.

No, the baseplate is a far more likely candidate for flexing - if any.

And shifting in the screws of a 6-point trem. Which could include height changes but even without height, there is room horizontally. But that would be far more binary.

 

[PCollen]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

God Almighty,
When I angle my strat block claw STRAIGHT, and I get the open G to pull up to A#, the open B goes to C# and the open E goes to F. period. End of story. There is no Carl V. TwighLight Zone for Trem-blocks. As Great as he is. And he is a very great player no doubt. May I ever be as good as him.
ANY, ANY way I angle my brass or pig iron block on either of my expensive, or cheap as bad dirt other strat claw, and I get the OPEN G to A# - the B goes to C# and the open E goes to F!!!!!! NO MATTER HOW I ANGLE THE DARN BLOCK.
I Can't get it to do otherwise-God's sake! As my Dad would say-GOOD NIGHT! If G goes 1.5 steps, then B goes 1 step and E goes .5 steps. 1&1/2-1-1/2.
Steve Buffington

I realize I’m ‘late to the party’ on this thread, but I felt I just had to add my .02 to clear something up: the Carl V. ‘myth ‘ of angling the trem claw has NOTHING to do with the pitch that the strings pull up to, and everything to do with balancing the bass and treble side of the trem assembly with the tension of the strings. Lets start with a guitar strung with D’Addario Balanced Tension .010 guage string set (EXL110BT), where each string in the pack is of a guage that, when tuned to concert pitch, exerts just about the same tension…..somewhere between 16.2 and 17.2 lbs, and the bass (wound) and treble (unwound) strings exert nearly the exact same amount of tension. With this set, Carl would not angle his trem claw at all…..the pull of the strings vs. the tension on the springs would be just about equal across the whole face of the trem base plate and the fulcrum points of the trem (2-pt studs or the 6-screws) would each have the same force on them. Now with a regular set of D’Addario .010 guage strings, the string tensions vary beween 16.2 and 19.5 lbs when tuned to pitch, and the string tension is greater on the wound strings than the unwound. So, Carl would want to have his springs pulling a little tighter on the bass side of the trem block than on the treble side and so would tighten his bass side trem claw screw a little more than the treble side screw, angling the trem claw such that the bass side springs are stretched a little more and therefore are under a little more tension than the treble side springs to compensate for the increased string tension of the wound strings. This balancing of spring vs. string tension can be done regardless of how high you float your tremolo. But it's a guessing game that has to be played according to feel, unless you have some precision measuring equipment available. Personally, I've never worried about it and always set my trem claw with no angle....it works for me.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

I am sure any physicist would disagree with the above. It does not make any sense. The trem pivot as a system only senses the forces on block attached as a whole. Does not care how the block is pulled. Even one extra strong spring in any location would have the exact same effect as a combination of lighter springs of the same total sum. Read David's posts above.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

I forgot about this thread. I ended up abandoning the large pull-up and now only float for a slight vibrato. Although it's an interesting thing for me to try again with one of my Strats.

Also, David and his team setup my friend's acoustic the other day, it absolutely smokes now.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

For some reason, I feel like the trem stays in tune better when I set it up for 3 semitone pull up on the g string.

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[greekdude]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

For some reason, I feel like the trem stays in tune better when I set it up for 3 semitone pull up on the g string.

your post has nothing to do with the thread.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

your post has nothing to do with the thread.

This thread is a zombie raised from the dead. Might as well highjack its reanimated corpse.

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[kramersteen]

Re: Another Reason Compensated Claw is a MYTH

We need compensated blocks.