Antiquity Humbuckers even better with 15uf caps

hammer jammer

New member
Hey guys just wanted to drop in and share my new found glory, I got a little antsy the last 2 weeks when my power tubes started farting out after a long year of heavy use so between scraping up the cash for a Quad of Tung Sol KT66's and 6 Tung Sol 12AX7's and waiting for the tubes to arrive I went a little crazy and did a complete overhaul on my guitar, cut a new bone nut did a premium fret level and crown job and rewired everything old school 50's style.

My Antiquity humbuckers sounded pretty good but my neck always had a little to be desired especially on the bass strings and the bridge always seemed a little thin and a tad shy of what I really really wanted, which was that piercing haunting blues tone that you get when you push a quad of KT66's to the edge of break up, so after tearing my guitar apart for the umpteenth time hoping to put some icing on the cake, (we all know what thats about) I feel like I finally hit pay dirt.

First thing I found was the whole volume kit thing I had going was sucking tone on both my pickups, I know a whole bunch of guys will chime in and say that the volume kit does not affetc the tone when the pickups are wide open and I will say to you...(Cough, BullSh*t) my ears could clearly hear the difference once I clipped those suckers off even wide open, it was so obvious Im pretty certain even someone who dosnt play could note the difference in sound, so for me that whole volume kit thing will not be revisited on my guitars.

Second, I was reading about the whole 60's and 70's bit where guys were removing the covers from their humbuckers claiming it sounded better and that the covers squashed the tone a bit, well once again I know alot of guys will claim that it makes little difference, but once again I say not to me, once I removed the covers these humbuckers seemed to open up and become more airy sounding (no pun intended) they seemed to breath a little almost like they were being held back with the covers installed, and again I say it was an obvious difference to my ears, more so than the sound clips of such comparisons I have heard online, so I may find it hard to go back to covered humbuckers after this experience, however I will say unless you have a nice blonde LP the cream humbuckers dont look as nice as the covered in my opinion, but for me this was a tone quest and aesthetics aside I definantly prefer my set without.

Third, I did something I havnt done in the past, I used a .015uf Orange drop cap on the bridge humbucker, something I have only previously done with the neck humbucker, I started thinking you know it dosnt make any sense to have a tone control that only has a small window of use especially when I havn't been completly satisfied with my bridge pickups performance anyway, so why not try it out, and sure as sh*t the .015uf Orange drop on both my neck and bridge was the ticket to that sweet, sweet woman tone I was longing for.

I have used the whole oil in paper cap thing for a long time mainly because it was all the rage and its considered en vogue and almost blasphemy if they arn't part of your setup, but something told me I should go with the Orange drops, they are raved about in strats and I love the piercing tone of strat pickups when I hear those good ole Texas blues jams, so I went Orange drop .015uf on both and wham! its all there, that woman tone I was wanting but couldnt quite reach and for a heck of alot less money than a new set of premium humbuckers.

So for me Im sticking to good ole fashioned 50's wiring, .015uf Orange drop caps on both humbuckers with (NO! absolutely positively volume kit crap) and cover less humbuckers from this point forward.

The tone and sound of my bridge Antiquity is finally all I had ever hoped it to be and at half the cost of a Boutique brand and my neck humbucker is ringing nice and clear and defined across the bass strings and most importantly my humbuckers are bright and piercing when I need them to be, no more mud and a very useful set of tone controls. ahhh...for now I feel content. :1:
 
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Re: Antiquity Humbuckers even better with 15uf caps

Yes .015uf, figured most would know but I will change the header just in case ...:eyecrazy:
 
Re: Antiquity Humbuckers even better with 15uf caps

hammer jammer,
Seriously, I just use a 500K pot with no tone on my bridge pick up as, like you, with the pot in the chain, it seems to suck 20% out of the tone & volume. I will get flack for saying that , but that is what it sounds like to me.
So please, really, tell me (I don't know what a volume kit crap is) why not go 1 Meg vol. Pot with a tone pot that is no load, meaning when you turn your tone on "10" there is a spot there where it-an indent-that simply removes the tone pot like it isn't there. I'm 61, and am hearing this for the first time.
I just ordered a bunch of both from amazon and while I am waiting I took my tone pot out of my LP Jr. and - it was as if someone turned on a light in a dark room - it was like someone took a blanket off my amp. So I figure if it is that good with only 500K, then 1 Meg with a no load pot will give me scientifically almost nothing but a straight shot to the guitar output jack. So regardless of the cap, .015, .022, once you get to the tone pot eliminating position on a no-load tone pot, you have it all. Does this make sense to you, by that I mean are we agreeing on pretty much the same thing?
I have been using my LP & SG w/out the bridge tone so it is already a straight shot, but when I wanted "woman tone", I just put the switch in the middle and "borrowed" the neck tone pot. I can't wait to hear my SH-2 Jazz neck wide open, I thought they were good now, but this should really give new life to all my guitars. Especially a master no-load tone for a Strat, or a no load for a 1 pickup LP Jr. (it has an Antiquity bridge). The cream Antiquity bobbins do look a little out of place on a red guitar w/a cream ring so I went with a black ring and a MojoTone nickel "open" HBucker cover. So it looks a lot better, but I agree on the coverless, so this was the best aesthetic thing I could come up with.
Again, does it sound to you like we are getting to the same place from slightly different angles?
I hate to sound so gung ho but as this is all new to me (the whole 1meg no-load pot thing), I am excited that someone else feels as strongly about it as I do.
Steve Buffington
 
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Re: Antiquity Humbuckers even better with 15uf caps

Hey Steve, well not exactly, I mean, I found that when I moved my pot value up to just 550K I didnt really like the change it made in the sound of my Antiquities, many will say that technically (as in on paper) that this or that does not make any difference based on science, but the fact is everyone has a different thing they're going for, not to mention there are so many variables from guitar and setup from one guy to the next that regardless of what it says on paper what works for me may not work for you and vice versa.

I hear you though and it sounds like you have found a way to get into your sweet zone so kudos to you, I had previously installed the volume kit after much reading and raving from others and for awhile I thought it was an improvement, but it wasn't just bright or volume or clear I was after, I knew what I could hear in my head and I guess after getting tired of not hearing it from my amp I decided to continue experimenting and dropping money on pots and caps and wiring and solder not to mention many sleepless nights working on guitars, alot of strings and setups...whew! I forgot about all that...lol anyway, after playing with the volume kit for awhile and just not quite hearing what I wanted and also reading about some guys saying the volume kit was robbing them of their tone, I cut it out and walla, they were right, by my account the tone actually improved just by removing the volume kit, but it still wasnt quite there where I knew it could or should be.

Though my tone was better I still felt the bridge was too thin sounding and the neck was still muddy in the bass notes it wasn't until I did the whole basic 50's wiring (with old school wire and all), I mention the wire because I had used very high end silver coated electronics wire on one setup and did not like the change in tone at all, something that surprised me, who knew wire type would have such an impact, but once I took off the covers and put in .015uf caps on both humbuckers I finally got the tone and response out of these pickups that I was searching for, it took alot of time and experimenting but I am very happy with the sound I've got now, my guitar has that sweet Clapton fuzzy woman tone lead thing going and my notes just sing, but thats also in combination with my amp and tubes not to mention effects, which all come into play, which is why I say everyones account will be different.

I also like having the tone controls and the way they interact with each other so I dont really want to eliminate those, I dont like the modern style of wiring either, again something I found out over time and experimentation, I also dont like paper in oil caps, personally I think they robbed my pickups of tone and I tried jensen, russian and whole slew of others and it wasn't until I went with the Orange drops that I liked what I was hearing, of course I also raise the screw poles in my humbuckers fairly high to get better note separation, probably because I played strats and single coils for many years which kind of makes me gravitate toward the whole Orange drop/single coil clearly defined note thing. So I am pretty particular about what Im going for, which may or may not work coming from another angle much like what you noted. you will only know once you try of course.
 
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Re: Antiquity Humbuckers even better with 15uf caps

I have an Mojotone kit in one of my guitars. It came with that volume mod resistor. I didnt like the sound of the volume rolled off, it's not the sound I am used to or like.

Anyhoo, got rid of the volume mod and most definitely the sound improved at full vs. When the volume was full up with the resistor mod.
I notice mojotone has new kits that omit that volume mod.

And certainly taking the covers off makes a difference. I spent weeks a/b in covers on vs. Covers off on a set of 57 classics, and 61 zebras. What's "better" is subjective, but there is a noticable difference.
 
Re: Antiquity Humbuckers even better with 15uf caps

Hey Jeff, yep, the Mojotone kit was my first experiment with the volume kit and it sounded pretty good, definantly brighter/clearer but it wasn't until I removed it that I realized I liked the stock pickup tone better, so then I went and bought a custom kit off E-bay (Cornell Dubilier Silver Mica 680pf (.00068uf) capacitors and two 150k carbon film resistors) but it wasn't as good sounding as the Mojotone which surprised me being that the Mojotone kit looked lower grade by comparisons but it wasn't until I had the time to do a fair amount of research online and was ready to tear my guitar apart again that I opted to just clip out the kit once more that I realized it was not for me.

Im not saying there dosnt exist a volume kit I would be happy with or that there isnt another way to achieve the sound I want or maybe an even better one at that, but as guitar player sayings go (Im willing to try anything just as long as its the same as what Im doing now...lol) so Im pretty satisfied having finally stumbled upon my current setup.

I agree on the covers thing, yep all completely subjective and probably all nill once you get cranked up at club volume, ...(though you wont convince me of that).

I had tried to A/B the cover or no cover option mainly by listening to online sound clips for comparisons as I wasn't to keen about melting the solder and who knows what else on my pickups, but I couldn't quite hear much of a difference to be able to decide, but now that I have done it Im glad I did, its not only the tone that changed but also the way the guitar responds to my playing, I dont feel like I have to squeeze the tone out of my guitar anymore, Im not fighting to get the tone and response from the strings as much, if that makes sense.

Of course Im obsessed with all the ridiculous little details and am constantly tweaking and looking for a way to improve things, as my wife says "why dont you just leave it alone for awhile ? " ...lol she dosnt understand...lol
 
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Re: Antiquity Humbuckers even better with 15uf caps

When I was married-
My wife would fool with makeup for at least an hour a day, and I never told her to leave her face alone!
SJ
 
Re: Antiquity Humbuckers even better with 15uf caps

hammer jammer-
So, what would the layout look like if you only had a 1 pickup guitar= Antiquity> pot.value? >cap? >tone pot value? >output jack.
I am sure I don't understand. Mine is Antiquity>1meg pot.>.022cap>250K no-load tone pot> output jack.
I would have got a much higher no-load tone pot but I couldn't find one.
Hope you don't mind me asking,
SJB
 
Re: Antiquity Humbuckers even better with 15uf caps

hammer jammer-
So, what would the layout look like if you only had a 1 pickup guitar= Antiquity> pot.value? >cap? >tone pot value? >output jack.
I am sure I don't understand. Mine is Antiquity>1meg pot.>.022cap>250K no-load tone pot> output jack.
I would have got a much higher no-load tone pot but I couldn't find one.
Hope you don't mind me asking,
SJB

Im sorry SJ318 I have never used a no load anything or a 1 meg pot I always shoot for old school P.A.F. Im stuck in the 60's and 70's most of the time so Im always just trying to recreate or capture that vintage sound, personally I would just go 50's wiring http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tonefreaks/558-wiring-library.html on occasion I will try something like the Volume kit/treble bleed thing or maybe a star grounding for sh*ts and giggles but when it comes to getting funky out there like your doing I dont have any experience that qualifies me to answer, but do keep us posted, Im always interested in hearing about other guys findings, for future reference.

You didnt mention what switch you were using....

Heres the Seymour Duncan sight schematics for pretty much any wiring combo your talking about http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/ just fill in the blanks to find your diagram for the no load stuff you'll have to scout the net for diagrams on that..

Heres a 1 humbucker 1 volume no tone schematic: http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=1hum_1vol

Heres a single humbucker 1 volume 1 tone: http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=1hum_1vol_1tone

Heres that volume kit/ treble bleed thing I was talking about: http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=treble_bleed

These guys always have great stuff to learn: http://www.guitarelectronics.com/category/wiring_resources_guitar_wiring_diagrams/

A whole page of shchmatics for 1 pickup wiring: http://www.guitarelectronics.com/ca...ing_diagrams.1_pickup_guitar_wiring_diagrams/

Heres what they say about the NO load stuff by Fender: http://www.guitarelectronics.com/category/wiring_resources_guitar_wiring_diagrams.wiring_faqs/#q3
What is a Fender TBX tone control and how does it work?
Some Fender guitars come equipped with a special pot called a TBX Tone Control T (treble) B (bass) X (Cut) that cuts either treble or bass instead of a tone pot that cuts treble frequencies only. This is done with a ganged 500K-1M ohm control pot that is wired to work as a low-pass filter in one direction and a high-pass filter in the opposite direction. A center detent in the middle position is provided for the off or "flat" position. Although Fender altered their Start tone configuration to have the TBX control the middle and bridge pickups, it can be also be wired as a master treble/bass control. The TBX can also be used in place of any standard tone control on any guitar.
What is a Fender No Load tone control and how does it work?
The Fender No Load Pot is used on some USA Strats, Teles and Fender basses and is wired like a standard tone control. From settings 1-9 it works like a standard tone then clicks in at 10 (full clockwise/ bright setting) and removes the pot and capacitor from the circuit. This eliminates the path to ground that exists with standard pots even in the full treble position. By eliminating the path to ground thru the pot, the only load on the pickup is the volume pot. So if 250K pots are used, the load is reduced from 125K to 250K and if 500K pots are used, the load is reduced from 250K to 500K (high resistance = low load) The reduced load allows more power output from he pickup and reduces the amount of high frequencies that bleed off to ground. This gives a noticeable increase in brightness and output in the full treble setting. The no load pot can be used in place of any standard tone control on any guitar or bass.


This guy has some interesting info about the TBX thing you'll want to read his article it pretty much covers it. https://sites.google.com/site/phostenixwiringdiagrams/modified-tbx-tone-control
Screenshot_2.jpg
 
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Re: Antiquity Humbuckers even better with 15uf caps

Thanks hammer jammer,
But all I was getting at was how do you wire your guitar now as we seem to be going after the same thing. My head never left the 60's or the early 70's.
I used the example of my 1 pickup guitar so there is no switch, it is the one I have the Antiquity in, as it is light and easier to play(long story-bad back/crippled). I thought that if you filled in what you use in place of what I use I could understand better.
It seems I am making things more confusing, which is the opposite of my intention.
So allow me one last try. I have guitars with Fender 5 way switches and Gibson 3 way switches and the one with no switch.
So if you could tell me, in simple terms, what parts you are using now-volume pot value (250K-500K?) tone pot value, (250K-500K?) cap value(.015,right?). Just basically what parts your signal passes through from pickup all the way to the output jack of your guitar. For example, just pick any pickup on your guitar and tell me it's path. I can do a 1 pickup wiring, a 2 pickup wiring, and a 5 way switch, but beyond that, I'm useless. Coil split, treble bleed, all that stuff I would have to look up again to try it, so I am not that much of a tech, these other guys are way smarter than I am, so don't for a second think I know much more than you do.
If I am still unclear what I am asking you, I won't try again, we'll just call it my failure to communicate. Thanks h.jammer,
SJ.............wish we could talk on the phone, it makes things so much easier.
 
Re: Antiquity Humbuckers even better with 15uf caps

Screenshot_3.jpg heres the one I always use, except I omit the ground wires shown that connect the neck pots to the bridge pots to avoid a ground loop as the braided shield already runs them to ground, similar to the second example, I included the first diagram because its clearer, This is the old school way and I like how the controls interact plus you get better tone with this wiring. ~Imo.

The only thing I do different is use .015 uf Orange drop capacitors on both bridge and neck because its brighter and makes my tone control more useful, of course it depends on what pickups you have and what tone you want as far as cap value goes.

For the Antiquities I have I like regular 500k CTS pots with brass bushings, no 550k or 1meg stuff for me and no pio caps, I just dont like these pickups with either 550k pots or paper in oil caps, or .022uf cap values- too dark for this set I got, same with the covers, dont like them on this set, they seem to detract from the tone of these humbuckers, but as I said earlier I played strats for many years and like single coil detail so I also have the screw poles raised fairly high for better note separation, ( I read that Ted Greene had his humbuckers low and the screw poles raised pretty high ) I tried it and I liked the tone I got better so thats how I set mine up, low humbuckers, high screw poles, lower value .015uf caps with 50's wiring, simple 2 conducter pickups with no covers, for brighter more detailed tone.
 

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Re: Antiquity Humbuckers even better with 15uf caps

Hammer jammer-
Thank you. That is what I was looking for. I appreciate your work. Good Job.
Steve JB
 
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