Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

[Little Pigbacon]

I'm still pretty much a novice when it comes to tubes. I've done a token amount of tube swapping. I retubed my TSL100 only once while I owned it, and all I did was buy EHX 12AX7's and the quartet of Groove Tubes EL34's that the local store had in stock.

I'm bewildered by the variety of tubes available and all the conflicting information and opinions out there. Every brand has the full gamut of reviews from glowing to abysmal. How does one become wise in the ways of valves?

 

[esandes]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

just searching the net.

descriptions by good vendors are pretty accurate too.
https://www.dougstubes.com/

trial with different types and brands.

 

[HiFiRebel]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

I'm with you. I know what tubes are good in my current amps so that's all I care about.

 

[aleclee]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

Buy a modeler and then it doesn't matter.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

just searching the net.

descriptions by good vendors are pretty accurate too.
https://www.dougstubes.com/

trial with different types and brands.

+1

Good vendor descriptions are a start, but the only way to know for sure is to try them as a lot of it is personal taste.

Case in point JJ 12AX7s are popular, but I think they sound like crap in my Marshall Jubilee. My personal favorite for that amp are EHX 12AX7s, but Sovteks are decent. Chinese tubes aren't horrible, but they're a bit bright and strident for my tastes.

 

[zzmoore]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

Do not even go down that rabbit hole. Dougs has been mentioned already...just ask a decent vendor like him, for a tube(s) that is reliable and stick with That/Those.
With Strings, Pick-Up Adjust, Set-Up, Speaker Change, Amp and Guitar Tone Controls, Speaker Cab Size and Location, etc etc etc.....tubes are the last thing i would worry about..
Just buy a set that does not burn up in 2 months and forget about what brand, shape, coating or color of pins, where they were made, etc, and concentrate on the craft of playing.
best

 

[JeffB]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

Tubes are like pickups. It might sound ace in one amp, and meh in another.

Trying the same tubes in different amps is the best experience. Then you can nail down what their tonal "signature" is.

I find the reviews on "the tube store" to be pretty spot-on with regards to the tubes I have tried.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

Dealing with valves is a royal pita; but I do love them so!

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

Learning about tubes = A lot of money at one time or a lot of money over the long term. Even then, all you know is what works best for you in a particular piece of gear. Change gear, and spend money again.

Or, you can just play the damned thing.

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

No, the more I learned, the more fascinated I be.

Someone mentioned hood descriptions from good vendors. thetubestore.com also has good descriptions and has reviews for tubes they've tried themselves.

But like somebody else posted, the best way it to try them yourself.

 

[MakerDP]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

Yeah if you care about your tone, you want to experiment. Some people are happy with "just plug in and play" and those of us who take the time to mess around with stuff know that tubes can make a huge difference in your tone.

I design and build tube amps and I will say in that circle of players, in general we stay away from Chinese tubes. Low quality and they are just lacking that "mojo." Also, in general, you really can't go wrong with experimenting with Tung Sol reissues, JJ and EH brand tubes for best bang-for-your-buck. Of course there are also the "cork sniffers" who won't use anything but >$100 each NOS tubes but I think that's a waste myself.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

I'm curious as to the physics of why one tube type sounds different from another.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

Yeah if you care about your tone, you want to experiment. Some people are happy with "just plug in and play" and those of us who take the time to mess around with stuff know that tubes can make a huge difference in your tone.

I design and build tube amps and I will say in that circle of players, in general we stay away from Chinese tubes. Low quality and they are just lacking that "mojo." Also, in general, you really can't go wrong with experimenting with Tung Sol reissues, JJ and EH brand tubes for best bang-for-your-buck. Of course there are also the "cork sniffers" who won't use anything but >$100 each NOS tubes but I think that's a waste myself.

Those cork sniffers would probably say that if you really cared about tone you would only use NOS tubes because current production tubes suck. And one could argue that there is just as much "merit" to that as there is in saying that Chinese tubes suck.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

Ha! Try finding NOS Genalex Gold Lion KT88's and ones that dont cost $600 each, or more.:friday:

 

[MakerDP]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

Those cork sniffers would probably say that if you really cared about tone you would only use NOS tubes because current production tubes suck. And one could argue that there is just as much "merit" to that as there is in saying that Chinese tubes suck.

Yep each side has it's own valid opinions. That's mine. But in general, yes Chinese tubes are not as reliable or consistent as the "Russian" ones.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

Yeah if you care about your tone, you want to experiment. Some people are happy with "just plug in and play" and those of us who take the time to mess around with stuff know that tubes can make a huge difference in your tone.

I design and build tube amps and I will say in that circle of players, in general we stay away from Chinese tubes. Low quality and they are just lacking that "mojo." Also, in general, you really can't go wrong with experimenting with Tung Sol reissues, JJ and EH brand tubes for best bang-for-your-buck. Of course there are also the "cork sniffers" who won't use anything but >$100 each NOS tubes but I think that's a waste myself.

V1 is the critical preamp tube position in most amps. It can be a good strategy to invest in a NOS or tested good used American, Japanese, or West European made tube for that position, and then mix and match current production tubes for the other preamp positions and the phase inverter.


Some like to use a long plate preamp tube for the phase inverter, but a short plate preamp tube for the overdrive positions in a high gain amp to reduce noise and prevent squealing.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

I'm curious as to the physics of why one tube type sounds different from another.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

There a lot of variables:

The size and shape of the components.
The spacing of the components.
The alignment of the components.
The alloys and materials used.
The quality of the coatings used.
The temperature properties of the components and the glass.
The softness or hardness of the vacuum.
I'm sure I left something out.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

Yes, and I am curious as to how the different tube designs make use of these factors. Or more specifically, what was the reason behind the engineering that resulted in the different designs and their subsequently different tone characteristics.
I don't necessarily expect these questions to be answered in this thread.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[LLL]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

Like JeffB said, a given tube might sound great in one type amp circuit, horrible in another.

A JJ might work great in a really bright amp where an NOS Mullard would be too detailed.

The best way to learn anything is to fiddle and test (e.g. experience things). Same goes for tubes.

You'll have to pony up some $$$ and grab different types and brands and swap 'em in and out.

Better yet, record your results.

Relying on others' tone descriptions is a crapshoot. As I always say (and as the old saying goes):

"if you want it done right, gotta do it yourself"

 

[zzmoore]

Re: Anyone else get discouraged learning about tubes?

Those cork sniffers would probably say that if you really cared about tone you would only use NOS tubes because current production tubes suck. And one could argue that there is just as much "merit" to that as there is in saying that Chinese tubes suck.

Yeah that...and the notion that Russian mass produced tubes are great, and Chinese mass produced tunes are "junk" strikes me as rather funny.