Anyone Have a Badlander 25?

[Rex_Rocker]

I think most of us can agree that a mini rectifier or Mark V 25 sounds very good. Maybe it doesn't deliver chest thumping low end and knock salt shakers off the tables, but oh man does it sound awesome from the least to the greatest of it's volume limitation.

Disagreed.

Much like any Recto, I don't think the Mini sounds particularly good turned way down. And much like I've been saying, turned up to full-band level volumes, it starts sounding thin. It has a window where it sounds fantastic that's below full-band volumes but well above bedroom volume where I feel sounds it's best.

Pretty bad master volume taper too. It goes from 0 to 100 in like 0.00000000001 turn of the knob.

The Mark V I heard is better.

 

[Top-L]

The problem is there are some common constraints these days. Primarily money and loudness. If you're stuck on 100w amps but don't play them at ear piercing volume then you're kind of preaching a faulty gospel. Believe me man, I love the sound of an EL34 quartet cranked so loud we'd start getting noise complaints from Mars. It's not just that they need to be played loud to sound good because some amps, like the 180 watt Diezel Herbert, sound great at low volume. It's that whatever you consider great sounding is significantly subjective.

Everyone has a reactive load these days. When I'm playing a tube amp, its either low/med volume in room, or cranked through an iso cab with IRs. The 6L6 and EL34 amps I've owned get this sag or "3D" aspect when they are operating in their sweet spot. In fact with a reactive load, its possible to use the amp volume as a tone shaping tool. Every power amp / tube type has its own sound.

This is why I don't like the Synergy preamp models (and similar products). The power amp is as much/more responsible for the sound than the preamp. And its also why I believe spending 1600 for a lunchbox amp is foolish. Most large amps have built in attenuators and are designed to sound good at lower volumes, and most people have a reactive load so when they record they can get big iron sounds. And of course if you are ever playing in a band, you will have enough punch to be heard.

 

[dr_m]

Disagreed.

Much like any Recto, I don't think the Mini sounds particularly good turned way down. And much like I've been saying, turned up to full-band level volumes, it starts sounding thin. It has a window where it sounds fantastic that's below full-band volumes but well above bedroom volume where I feel sounds it's best.

Pretty bad master volume taper too. It goes from 0 to 100 in like 0.00000000001 turn of the knob.

The Mark V I heard is better.

Well it sounds like you're using reasoning and personal preference rather than sound judgement (pun intended). It sounds more like you're weighing the pros/cons and considering the inadequacies of such amps for you own use. However, when I said "sounds good," By "sound," i meant from the standpoint of an appealing tone. The same you said goes for big amps. Lots of Marshall's, Fenders, etc. don't sound good at low volume, and not necessarily at their loudest either. That's why you have to find a "sweet spotted the 'the tone.' Big amps, like the JCM800, can sound tinny and harsh u til they get loud. Therefore what you said applies across the board and not just small amps. I tell you this: If you hear a decent player soloing on a Mark V 25 or mini rect, I doubt you'd be able to criticize the tone in any meaningful way outside of personal preference.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Well it sounds like you're using reasoning and personal preference rather than sound judgement (pun intended). It sounds more like you're weighing the pros/cons and considering the inadequacies of such amps for you own use. However, when I said "sounds good," By "sound," i meant from the standpoint of an appealing tone. The same you said goes for big amps. Lots of Marshall's, Fenders, etc. don't sound good at low volume, and not necessarily at their loudest either. That's why you have to find a "sweet spotted the 'the tone.' Big amps, like the JCM800, can sound tinny and harsh u til they get loud. Therefore what you said applies across the board and not just small amps. I tell you this: If you hear a decent player soloing on a Mark V 25 or mini rect, I doubt you'd be able to criticize the tone in any meaningful way outside of personal preference.

No no, I think you misunderstood me.

I understand and agree that a Mini Rec sounds great when it's at the sweet spot, much like any other amp. There is a reason why it sells like it does. I'm sure it's a big hit for Mesa. Hell, I wouldn't mind owning one for myself for recording. To be completely fair, I do own a 20W 2xEL84 poweramp that I use to jam at home through my Krank 1x12 whenever I get the chance to make some noise, which is honestly, not all that often.

I was addressing the statement "but oh man does it sound awesome from the least to the greatest of it's volume limitation". It doesn't. It doesn't sound good at the least of its volume limitation. So It's not a great bedroom amp. It doesn't sound good at the greatest of its volume limitation. So it's not a great gigging amp. It sounds good somewhere in between, much like any other amp, like you said. So it is a good recording amp.

And yeah, I was judging from my own preference. But is there any other way to judge sound? But to be completely objective, which of us metal players the Mini Rectifier is aimed at like an uber fizzy tone (at low volumes) or a shrill, thin, and farty tone (at high volumes)? I'm sure there is the odball guy that does. But I assure you, most of us don't. It is a Rectifier we're talking about, after all. Not an AC-15 where people actually expect and want that upper-mid focused tone with very little bass.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

And even it if is a good recording amp for the money, there is still something desirable about a 100W Dual Rec that would make me pick one up over the Mini Recto if money wasn't an object. They're not indistinguishable in a recording. How can they be? The voltages are different. The impedance curve of the transformers is different. The power is different. The way they make the speakers work or not is different. Physically, there is no way these don't sound different.

 

[Top-L]

Well it sounds like you're using reasoning and personal preference rather than sound judgement (pun intended). It sounds more like you're weighing the pros/cons and considering the inadequacies of such amps for you own use. However, when I said "sounds good," By "sound," i meant from the standpoint of an appealing tone. The same you said goes for big amps. Lots of Marshall's, Fenders, etc. don't sound good at low volume, and not necessarily at their loudest either. That's why you have to find a "sweet spotted the 'the tone.' Big amps, like the JCM800, can sound tinny and harsh u til they get loud. Therefore what you said applies across the board and not just small amps. I tell you this: If you hear a decent player soloing on a Mark V 25 or mini rect, I doubt you'd be able to criticize the tone in any meaningful way outside of personal preference.

Have you considered buying the Badlander 50 head?

The unique thing about the Badlander is it's EL34 power section, which distinguishes it from the DR. I believe its supposed to be a Dual Rec with some EL34 magic.

The 50 watt head has a 20 watt mode, and its a pretty compact footprint. Looks like a great package for about $800 more than the mini Badlander. I believe it will retain more resale value.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

The unique thing about the Badlander is it's EL34 power section, which distinguishes it from the DR. I believe its supposed to be a Dual Rec with some EL34 magic

You can run both EL34's and 6L6's both in the normal Rectos and the Badlander. I think that's been a feature of all Rectos since the later 2-channel revisions.

I honestly don't understand why they even decided to make the Badlander part of the Rectifier series other than marketing. They sounds NOTHING like a classic Dual Rectifier. Not even if you boost a Recto. A boosted Recto still sounds huge and scooped. Just tighter. I've heard people complain the Badlander is kinda thin, even, which I don't agree with, but it's definitely not ridiculously bassy like a Recto.

Not that that's bad or good, but it doesn't sound like the big, scooped, loose, grindy tone that Rectos are known for. Like, at all.

 

[Top-L]

You can run both EL34's and 6L6's both in the normal Rectos and the Badlander. I think that's been a feature of all Rectos since the later 2-channel revisions.

I honestly don't understand why they even decided to make the Badlander part of the Rectifier series other than marketing. They sounds NOTHING like a classic Dual Rectifier.

Not that that's bad or good, but it doesn't sound like the big, scooped, loose, grindy tone that Rectos are known for. Like, at all.

They have to keep making new amplifiers to sell. Their marketing department decided this, certainly. How does it compare to a Triple Crown? A Dual Rec? A Mark?

I was infatuated with the Mark V/VII for about a week, but the graphic EQ and the obligatory "V" shape grinds my gears in a certain way. Its a three channel amp, but really a one channel amp with multiple modes because of the shared EQ. And the Dual Rec needs a boost pedal to do anything resembling lead guitar. And the Triple Crown is advertized as "Marshall like", but if I want a Marshall, I'll buy a Marshall.

I don't really understand or have an overwhelming desire to own a Mesa, because I don't "get" them. I think Gibson owning Mesa is a match made in heaven.

 

[Ascension]

Oh, the Mesa 25W's do sound good! And they record beautifully a medium-ish volumes. But it's just the nature of all 15-25W 2xEL34 amps to sound narrow and compressed when they're at band-level volumes. Mesa, EVH, Orange, or any, for that matter.

Agree with this 100%. Have owned a number of 20 to 30 watt EL 84 amps and love them for what they do However t also understand they will never be a great amp for higher volume live use. Owned several of the old Boogie Subway Rocket amp and a Boogie F 30 short head. I have one Subway Rocket that i have used for many many years for very low volume killer tones with a mic.
They will never have the punch and tightness of a 6L6 amp in a full band situation unmiced.
However can sound absolutely amazing miced in the FOH if your running the right combo.
Example this is my Subway Rocket 1/10 combo at very low stage level miced with a SM 57 and only a Boss DD 7 delay in the loop.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

And the Dual Rec needs a boost pedal to do anything resembling lead guitar.

Or pretty much anything but fucking Nu Metal, LOL. But once you throw a boost in front of one, it's glorious. The Boss SD-1 is my secret weapon in front of a Rectifier more than a TS808. It's tighter, leaner, and more aggressive in the attack. Exactly what a Recto needs.

Many people have problems with 3K amps needing 50 dollar pedals to sound good. I don't. I mean, after all, I'm gonna end up capturing it with a 100 dollar mic, LOL.

But then again, I always felt an unboosted EVH 5150III with the resonance and the presence turned up can at least get you in the ballpark of a boosted Rectifier for much less. Not dead on, but not a worse sounding tone either.

 

[Top-L]

Or pretty much anything but ****ing Nu Metal, LOL. But once you throw a boost in front of one, it's glorious. The Boss SD-1 is my secret weapon in front of a Rectifier more than a TS808. It's tighter, leaner, and more aggressive in the attack. Exactly what a Recto needs.

Many people have problems with 3K amps needing 50 dollar pedals to sound good. I don't. I mean, after all, I'm gonna end up capturing it with a 100 dollar mic, LOL.

But then again, I always felt an unboosted EVH 5150III with the resonance turned up can at least get you in the ballpark of a boosted Rectifier for much less. Not dead on, but not a worse sounding tone either.

Ive been using sd1 into my ironheart. Its my core tone these past five years.

Waiting for an Engl Savage to arrive... Looking forward to having an amp that can do leads without a boost pedal. As someone who plays and practices lead guitar 90% of the time, i just dont understand why many amps dont have a lead guitar mode that works like a boost built in.

Or for that matter, lead guitar amps that can do more than shred and chug. I have high hopes for the engl.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

I've got an Ironheart 120 and I absolutely love it for solo's. It's got bucketloads of gain (more than I could ever find a use for) & is totally effortless to shred on. I don't use boosts with amps in general, (not really looking for "tightness" as I generally prefer an amp that sags a bit & breathes, with more open mids) though with my Laney I often have the onboard boost (which I personally think is great - way better than typical tubescreamer-like boosts) switched on @ about 40-50 per cent, gain @ 6 and I'm good to go... :bigthumb:

Still, the Savage is a killer sounding amp. Pretty sure it will be fantastic.. good luck with it.

 

[Top-L]

I've got an Ironheart 120 and I absolutely love it for solo's. It's got bucketloads of gain (more than I could ever find a use for) & is totally effortless to shred on. I don't use boosts with amps in general, (not really looking for "tightness" as I generally prefer an amp that sags a bit & breathes, with more open mids) though with my Laney I often have the onboard boost (which I personally think is great - way better than typical tubescreamer-like boosts) switched on @ about 40-50 per cent, gain @ 6 and I'm good to go... :bigthumb:

Still, the Savage is a killer sounding amp. Pretty sure it will be fantastic.. good luck with it.

Thanks.

The Ironheart boost and gain controls do the same thing. They are additive preamp gain stages (not cascading), which is cool because it allows you to set two gain levels for every channel. The problem is that when the total of the boost+ gain > 14, the amp overloads in an ugly way. They do the same thing, any combination of boost and gain that totals up the same, sounds about the same.

So 14 is about as much gain as the amp will get. Its enough to solo, but you have to work for it, and low action, light strings, dead spots, and lower output pickups make it harder.

The amp is completely "fixed" by putting another drive stage in front. The SD-1 with a bit of drive and gain makes it sound like a tight 5150. The only problem is that there isn't an easy way to switch off the SD-1 when changing to the clean channel.

The Ironheart is really cool and very versatile, but its tweaky without easy control of the boost and gain stages.

The master volume watt control is also kinda limiting. High gain coming from the channels puts it into "power tube" distortion, which is cool for cranked amp vibe, but there is no way to get both a high headroom and a saggy sound from it at the same time. I have the 60 watt version and it has much less clean headroom that I would expect from a 6L6 amp of that size.