Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

[Frankly]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

In some ways, it is a lot like women's underwear. To some, a woman can seem more desirable if she wears nice undergarments. Others either don't care or cannot tell. Untimately, there is no objective way to prove that a woman in a thong is sexier than the same woman in a pair of giant white Wal-Mart 3 for $10 bloomers. A sexy thong won't turn Rosie O'Donnell into Delta Burke, nor will bad undies turn Ms. Delta Burke into Rosie O'Donnell. Yet, knowing Delta Burke is wearing something special just adds something extra to the package.

Thank you.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

I'm interested in that! Sorry I missed it. I will search for your post.

Essentially I had 4 cables; a Pete Cornish, another really posh expensive one (I forget the name but will have a look), a cheapo Piranha and a Klotz La Grange one I made myself. I tried switching between them and couldn't tell 'em apart so recorded as close to the same thing as I could with each in turn (guitar/cable/amp only), randomised (with a log I didn't read until afterwards) the filenames and then listened back.

The $60 Pete Cornish was indistinguishable from the $10 Piranha. The $200 posh one was indistinguishable from the $25ish La Grange one. There was an audible but tiny difference between those two pairs.

As far as I know I'm the only person on a guitar forum to have actually blind-tested cables and posted the results. Everyone else just insists that there is or isn't a difference, and gets quite angry if anyone disagrees. This does not, of course, make me a better person than anyone else, and it certainly doesn't make me popular.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

They were all quite short - 15' at a guess. All pretty much the same length.

You do make a valid point.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

I hope I will never have any sexual experience with a cap.

Ah - you've never tried a paper-in-oil then.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

Once more, Sir. I don't THINK that I hear a difference, I HEAR a difference.

Blind testing? Otherwise you can't reliably judge it.

If it worths to lay it down one, let me know, dude; I'm still at time to grab one from the LP.
:jester:

I use the orange drops because they're pretty cheap, a nice colour, and easy to work with physically.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

Essentially I had 4 cables; a Pete Cornish, another really posh expensive one (I forget the name but will have a look), a cheapo Piranha and a Klotz La Grange one I made myself. I tried switching between them and couldn't tell 'em apart so recorded as close to the same thing as I could with each in turn (guitar/cable/amp only), randomised (with a log I didn't read until afterwards) the filenames and then listened back.

The $60 Pete Cornish was indistinguishable from the $10 Piranha. The $200 posh one was indistinguishable from the $25ish La Grange one. There was an audible but tiny difference between those two pairs.

As far as I know I'm the only person on a guitar forum to have actually blind-tested cables and posted the results. Everyone else just insists that there is or isn't a difference, and gets quite angry if anyone disagrees. This does not, of course, make me a better person than anyone else, and it certainly doesn't make me popular.

Very interesting. Thanks.

As mentioned by others, not surprising due to the length of the samples.

I'd love to do something similar with 20 or 30 foot lengths, but I do not have the budget to buy the samples.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

Once more, Sir. I don't THINK that I hear a difference, I HEAR a difference. Different materials used on making them and different tolerance ranges could be a technical reason or not, I dunno but, it doesn't changes my experience.

Since there is no scientifc/engineering basis, I hope you are using the cheapest cap in the market for your projects. If you do it, hats off, you are coherent with your words, otherwise, what's the game?.

I have guitars with Orange Drops, cheaper mylar caps, and ceramic caps. I generally use whatever's handy. Since I build pedals I have a lot of caps kicking around. I bought some Orange Drops back in the day to see what the fuss was about, and they're still in a couple of my guitars. No sense in taking them out now that they're in there - they're doing a fine job.

There's no game. I'm just concerned that inexperienced members will see something about getting "better" caps, spend their money, and hear no difference. I'm making sure people know what they're really buying.

 

[Stratman]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

Come on - let's buy some snake oil in waste paper caps....

LOL

 

[saladin]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

Does anyone here actually play guitar?

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

Very interesting. Thanks.

As mentioned by others, not surprising due to the length of the samples.

I'd love to do something similar with 20 or 30 foot lengths, but I do not have the budget to buy the samples.

Me too - on both counts.

Does anyone here actually play guitar?

Gosh no. No time for that. Inferweb arguments to be had!

 

[uOpt]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

Of course cables will make a difference for a guitar with passive pickups. The capacitance of the cable is added to the capacitance of the pickup, and that moves the resonance peak. This is very basic physics. It's a simple low pass filter.

The situation is entirely different compared to cables in low-impedance situations where the cable has to be broken to cause an audible difference.

Also, passive pickups have been made with a typical guitar cable in mind. They decide how high to wind the things when testing through a typical cable. Using an extremely low-capacitance cable (e.g. just 2 feet long and high quality) will come out too thin sounding since the resonance peak is now higher than the pickup makers intended.

I have clips with the different capacitors somewhere if people really want to take a blind test shot. But I don't want any *****ing about my playing or what I play for whatever. It'll be clean fingerpicking on a Les Paul with an Antiquity or a 78.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

I'd like to give it a go.

Also I'm bemused by the various claims that tone caps are not in the signal path - they most definitely are. The signal path in a guitar involves both the hot and the ground - disconnect either and no signal. Given that the tone cap goes between the two (yes, via the pot, I know) it's clearly part of that circuit.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

I'd like to give it a go.

Also I'm bemused by the various claims that tone caps are not in the signal path - they most definitely are. The signal path in a guitar involves both the hot and the ground - disconnect either and no signal. Given that the tone cap goes between the two (yes, via the pot, I know) it's clearly part of that circuit.

Even with the tone pot full open (at 10) the tone circuit will still be a low pass filter (a resistor and a capacitor in series). The capacitor is definitely in a position where it changes sound. How much different kinds of capacitors that have the same base capacitance sound different is the $10 question. I think I can hear the difference but it is very small.

Let's see what the interest level is. Other people's soundclips are useless to pick your own sound anyway, but I might want to re-record the whole bunch before posting.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

Even with the tone pot full open (at 10) the tone circuit will still be a low pass filter (a resistor and a capacitor in series). The capacitor is definitely in a position where it changes sound. How much different kinds of capacitors that have the same base capacitance sound different is the $10 question. I think I can hear the difference but it is very small.

Let's see what the interest level is. Other people's soundclips are useless to pick your own sound anyway, but I might want to re-record the whole bunch before posting.

Yep.....Fender's No Load Tone Pot took both the cap and the pot's resistance out of the circuit equation when the tone pot is set on 10...

 

[MattPete]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

All I know is that I put a bunch of caps on a rotary switch and I couldn't hear a difference when the tone pot (500k?) was on 10.

More to the point: these were caps of different values!

I had to turn the town pot more than half way down, then it became quite apparent and there was a huge difference. In other words, if you play with your tone pots on 10, the cap value or construction isn't going to have much of an effect.

In this instance, I'm with Lew on this one. If you don't believe him, make your own rotary switch with different caps of the same value but different construction and see if you hear a difference. Make sure you use two of each construction to account for manufacturing variances.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

Yep.....Fender's No Load Tone Pot took both the cap and the pot's resistance out of the circuit equation when the tone pot is set on 10...

Which usually isn't what you want, in particular in a Fender. The base load from volume and tone pot at 10 is what people are used to and what pickups are made for.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

Which usually isn't what you want, in particular in a Fender. The base load from volume and tone pot at 10 is what people are used to and what pickups are made for.

I only use the No Load Tone pots on my humbucking Gibson style guitars...Not on my Teles or strats..

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

To let the tone at 10, "teorically" removes the cap from the circuit

Only with a no-load pot.

 

[MattPete]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

Also, the method of the rotary switch cannot work. If you are also mixing stuff, you will probably know that to A/B-ing two EQ settings in a short and continous loop can fool your ears.

????????????


Can you explain electrically, and/or, psychophysically why that would not work?

 

[uOpt]

Re: Anyone NOT like Sprauge Orange Drop capacitors?

That's garbage.

I have a rotary (and an extra toggle) for the capacitors in my harness. I record the same thing a couple times while flipping switches (for blind I could have my wife do it and keep a log). It's no rocker sciene to listen to the clips afterwards.

It is true that the ear very quickly adjusts to find whatever you are hearing is "right" but I don't see how that applies when you A/B clips and listen to real music in between.