Are All Celestion Vintage 30s Made In The UK?
- Thread starter Kam
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sosomething
Seymour Duncan Customer Support
Re: Are All Celestion Vintage 30s Made In The UK?
Jerry being an idiot.
Jerry being an idiot.
gatorbait58
New member
Re: Are All Celestion Vintage 30s Made In The UK?
I agree, they are vastly different. My Duncan Designs have much greater output than my USA made SD's......copper must be WAY less expensive overseas!
I agree, they are vastly different. My Duncan Designs have much greater output than my USA made SD's......copper must be WAY less expensive overseas!
Van Noord
New member
Re: Are All Celestion Vintage 30s Made In The UK?
Read this. I posted on the VHT forum that I liked Mesa UK V30's better and Steve Fryette responded with a wealth of insight on the topic.
"The Mesa version is OEM. This is the T4416 model, which is an 16 ohm speaker. It is made in England specifically for Mesa. But Mesa didn't specify it that way. From what we were told by Celestion around 1997-8, Celestion changed the model T3904 (16 ohm) V30 design in the early 90s to make it easier and cheaper to produce. Mesa didn't like it and insisted on the original version, which then became an OEM model. The 8 ohm version of the Mesa speaker is the T4335. To get an OEM model from Celestion requires a large order. This speaker was made on a separate production line from the off-the-shelf V30, which as Van Noord says is fizzy and thin sounding by comparison.
There is a third 16 ohm version only used by Marshall - T3897 - which is even brighter.
When we were using Celestion speakers, we found out about the existence of the T4416 which we had purchased from our German distributor at the time and asked Celestion about it. They had claimed that they didn't offer OEM varitions of the V30, but changed their story when we sent them a T4416 "for evaluation". Then a new rep called us, confirmed that there were in fact two separate V30 production lines and agreed to make us a special T Number OEM speaker. After a couple of months back and forth, we placed a large order and requested the special number assignment, at which time they cancelled the order and reneged on the deal. That's when we switched to Eminence. We haven't used Celestions speakers since.
It's not that V30s don't sound good with our amps. It's just that the T4416 sounds better. The T3904 is now made in China and after all these years, the P50E does what we wanted Celestion to do originally - and does it better, in fact - so we don't need Celestions help.
So, if you like V30s, there is nothing about the amp design that will be compromised using a V30. Our amps are not voiced "only" for the P50E. What is optimized for the P50E is the cabinet design. In that, the P50 will perform better in our cab than any others.
And now you know that when you say V30, you could be talking about 5 different speakers - that all sound slightly different:*
T3903 Standard 8 ohm
T3904 Standard 16 ohm
T3987 Marshall OEM 16 ohm
T4416 Mesa OEM 16 ohm
T4335 Mesa OEM 8 ohm
*When you change the impedance rating of the speaker, you also change the inductance of the coil which changes the resonant frequency among other things. So if you have 2 identical amps and 2 identical cabs - one cab loaded with 8 ohm speakers and amp set to 8 next to one loaded with 16 ohm speakers and amp set to 16, they will sound noticably different. The 16 ohm rig will usually sound brighter and deeper.
Personally I prefer the 4416, but not in a Recto 4X12. And therein lies the rabbit hole - you can't accurately compare like speakers in unlike cabs."
Read this. I posted on the VHT forum that I liked Mesa UK V30's better and Steve Fryette responded with a wealth of insight on the topic.
"The Mesa version is OEM. This is the T4416 model, which is an 16 ohm speaker. It is made in England specifically for Mesa. But Mesa didn't specify it that way. From what we were told by Celestion around 1997-8, Celestion changed the model T3904 (16 ohm) V30 design in the early 90s to make it easier and cheaper to produce. Mesa didn't like it and insisted on the original version, which then became an OEM model. The 8 ohm version of the Mesa speaker is the T4335. To get an OEM model from Celestion requires a large order. This speaker was made on a separate production line from the off-the-shelf V30, which as Van Noord says is fizzy and thin sounding by comparison.
There is a third 16 ohm version only used by Marshall - T3897 - which is even brighter.
When we were using Celestion speakers, we found out about the existence of the T4416 which we had purchased from our German distributor at the time and asked Celestion about it. They had claimed that they didn't offer OEM varitions of the V30, but changed their story when we sent them a T4416 "for evaluation". Then a new rep called us, confirmed that there were in fact two separate V30 production lines and agreed to make us a special T Number OEM speaker. After a couple of months back and forth, we placed a large order and requested the special number assignment, at which time they cancelled the order and reneged on the deal. That's when we switched to Eminence. We haven't used Celestions speakers since.
It's not that V30s don't sound good with our amps. It's just that the T4416 sounds better. The T3904 is now made in China and after all these years, the P50E does what we wanted Celestion to do originally - and does it better, in fact - so we don't need Celestions help.
So, if you like V30s, there is nothing about the amp design that will be compromised using a V30. Our amps are not voiced "only" for the P50E. What is optimized for the P50E is the cabinet design. In that, the P50 will perform better in our cab than any others.
And now you know that when you say V30, you could be talking about 5 different speakers - that all sound slightly different:*
T3903 Standard 8 ohm
T3904 Standard 16 ohm
T3987 Marshall OEM 16 ohm
T4416 Mesa OEM 16 ohm
T4335 Mesa OEM 8 ohm
*When you change the impedance rating of the speaker, you also change the inductance of the coil which changes the resonant frequency among other things. So if you have 2 identical amps and 2 identical cabs - one cab loaded with 8 ohm speakers and amp set to 8 next to one loaded with 16 ohm speakers and amp set to 16, they will sound noticably different. The 16 ohm rig will usually sound brighter and deeper.
Personally I prefer the 4416, but not in a Recto 4X12. And therein lies the rabbit hole - you can't accurately compare like speakers in unlike cabs."
Archer_of_Fish
New member
Re: Are All Celestion Vintage 30s Made In The UK?
I have chinese and UK V30s and cannot tell the difference
I have chinese and UK V30s and cannot tell the difference
Van Noord
New member
Re: Are All Celestion Vintage 30s Made In The UK?
Also, despite what some say, cabinets will also dictate how a speakers sounds/performs.
Two different brands of cabs with the same dimensions and build materials will sound different. Even if they both have the same Chinese V30 speakers in them.
Also, despite what some say, cabinets will also dictate how a speakers sounds/performs.
Two different brands of cabs with the same dimensions and build materials will sound different. Even if they both have the same Chinese V30 speakers in them.
