Bad action after changing strings, 1st and 2nd frets of A, D, G strings fretting out

[Steven Mal]

I recently changed the strings on my SE Custom 24 and the action is so low that the 1st and 2nd frets of the A, D and G strings are fretting out. The first five frets on the low E and frets 3, 4 and 5 on the A string are buzzing as well. I did not have this issue before I changed strings. Because this is the cheapest guitar I own and I can't afford to pay to have all my guitars set-up when I want, I would like to try to fix the problem myself before paying a guitar tech to fix it.

What happened to the action when I changed strings? What should I adjust first, the saddles or truss rod? Which way do I turn the truss rod to get rid of the buzzing and resolve the issue of "fretting out?" Thanks.

 

[ICTGoober]

Did you change the brand or gauge of strings? Tuned back to pitch yet? Did any part of the bridge move while the strings were off the guitar?

 

[nexion218]

Fret the low E @3rd fret, there should be some minimal clearence between the frets and the string going towards the nut (frets 1 and 2). If theres no clearence, the nut is too low. Would be a curious case, since there was no such prior issue, right?

If your buzz is concentrated in the middle area of the neck, you might want to give it a little more relief: righty-tighty (not what you want), lefty-loosy (this is what you want). A quarter turn, then leave for for a few mins and inspect. Fret your low E @1st (might wanna use a capo) and at the fret where your neck meets the body, usually 17th-18th and inscpest clearence at the 7th-8th fret. By fretting at 2 points, you're creating a straightedge from the string and the 7th-8th fret area is your halfway point, where the relief is the biggest. I'd say that a relief of 0,2-0,3 mm should be enough.

All that being said, the truss rod is NOT for setting action. You do that at the bridge and the nut. You can do the saddles for yourself, but I suggesz not messing with the nut without the right tools and proper knowledge.

Btw have you changed the gauge of the strings? Lighter strings tend to be flubbier at the same pitch and pull less on the neck, which alone might be the reason for the buzz.

 

[GuitarDoc]

The only thing that could have caused that problem is changing to a lower gauge string. Since the buzzing is happening at the lower frets, adjusting the bridge or truss rod is absolutely the wrong thing to do. You either need stiffer or higher gauge strings or you need to raise the nut (or get a new one) which requires a guitar tech/luthier...don't try it yourself unless you have experience doing work on your nut.

 

[ehdwuld]

The only thing that could have caused that problem is changing to a lower gauge string. Since the buzzing is happening at the lower frets, adjusting the bridge or truss rod is absolutely the wrong thing to do. You either need stiffer or higher gauge strings or you need to raise the nut (or get a new one) which requires a guitar tech/luthier...don't try it yourself unless you have experience doing work on your nut.

I disagree
a tweak of the truss rod is the solution for lighter gauge strings

Dont adjust anything else until you tweak it a quarter turn
Action come right back in five minutes

Doc you know this

 

[Securb]

I agree. My Gibsons all came with 10s when switching them to 9s a light truss tweak is all I needed.

 

[Masta' C]

...you need to raise the nut (or get a new one) which requires a guitar tech/luthier...don't try it yourself unless you have experience doing work on your nut.

One of the best upgrades I did to my SE CU24 was swap out the SE nut for a proper "Core" model nut. You get a 2-pack for like $20. It's a no-brainer.

Oh, and it's an easy swap. All you need is sandpaper and a little glue to hold the new nut in place. Take your time, test-fit as you go and you can get exactly the action you want

 

[Mincer]

I've gone from 9s to 10s with no ill effects on some guitars, but sometimes the setup doesn't work for the new strings, and it needs a new setup.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Loosen the truss rod a 1/4 turn.


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[Obsessive Compulsive]

Truss rod adjustment is for more/ less curvature of the neck, not action. I would adjust the saddles.

 

[Adieu]

Truss rod adjustment is for more/ less curvature of the neck, not action. I would adjust the saddles.

There's two different ways switching to smaller gauge/lower tension strings messes up the action:

1) less string pull - truss rod makes the neck go convex (less counterpull on the headstock to even it out) - adjust truss rod
2) floppier by nature - thinner strings tuned to the same note move more and will buzz at the same action that will be perfect for thicker strings - raise saddles

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

^Yes, we can safely assume the neck has moved a bit cause of less string pull.

 

[beaubrummels]

My first thought (though it wasn't stated in the OP) is that you must have changed gauge of strings. You have to adjust the bridge saddles and truss when you do that.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Truss rod adjustment is for more/ less curvature of the neck, not action. I would adjust the saddles.

He’s buzzing on the lower frets, not the higher ones. That’s a slight back bow on the neck. He went to a lighter set of strings, so he needs to loosen the rod.

But I’ve only been a luthier for 40 years, so what do I know?


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[DavidRavenMoon]

There's two different ways switching to smaller gauge/lower tension strings messes up the action:

1) less string pull - truss rod makes the neck go convex (less counterpull on the headstock to even it out) - adjust truss rod
2) floppier by nature - thinner strings tuned to the same note move more and will buzz at the same action that will be perfect for thicker strings - raise saddles

Correct on #1. But not #2. I often use 8s with super low action. They don’t buzz on the frets. The tension is lower, but they are at their correct tension at that pitch.

I wouldn’t tune them down a step, but Toni Iommi does.


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[dave74]

Smaller gauges at the same tuning will move more if you were to play them identically, but that's not what happens because the player will quickly adjust the picking dynamics by picking with a softer "touch".

Maybe those who strike or "chop" at the strings won't really adjust to the tension change, but IMO most seasoned players will.

Even if the slightly looser strings do end-up moving more (again, that's up to the player's touch) they are also smaller which reduces the size of the vibration-loop.

Anyways, my point is that it basically evens-out, or if anything I can use just slightly lower action with smaller gauges.

 

[Mr. B]

Instead of guessing what it could be, why don't you measure the dang thing and find out. If there is way too little relief in the neck, then that could be the problem. If the strings are too low, then that could be the problem. If the tremolo is sitting at a drastic angle, then that could be the problem. If the strings have zero clearance when you test the nut height, then that could be the problem. It could also be a combination of any of those. Measure the setup and find out.

 

[Clint 55]

^ Yep lol.

 

[Mincer]

We haven't heard from the OP, so maybe he figured it out?

 

[Aceman]

Well....We have heard from all of you. Man, I'm scared just reading most off this.

There are are up to FOUR possible reasons for this. And they are somewhat related...

#1 The most likely is as mentioned, neck back-bow happened.
- This could be because OP switched to lighter strings
- It could also (not probable, but possible) happen because OP removed all the strings and the neck over-responded and didn't come back to original spot even with same gauge

Check: The bow in the neck that can prevent buzz is called "relief" if you fret the 6th string (or any) at the first fret with your left hand, and at the fret where the neck meets the body with your right hand pinky, you can very carefully pluck the string with the right hand middle index finger. If it make no sound, back bow. If it buzzes, you need to loosen the truss a little, if you can see a whole lot of space between the string and the frets around the 7th fret, you might tighten it a little.

SOLUTION: Loosen the truss rod 1/4 turn at a time, tune the strings, check for buzz. If you have to really force the turn, don't. Suggestion - loosen 1/4 turn (just to get rod moving) check for more buzz, tighten 1/4, then tighten (actually tightening now) another quarter.

#2 Something wacky with the action / bridge when the strings came off. The action could be impacted when you move the truss anyway.
- If the truss is too tight, the strings will raise higher off the neck. Often after adjusting the truss the strings can bee too high/too low.
- Loosening the Truss often lets the string rise too high
- Tightening can bring them too low.

Check: Play the notes, each string and see if there is buzz, or if ti just feels excessively high. Measuring at the 12th fret with a precise ruler is also ok. Height at the 12th fret is typically about 6/64th of an inch (2.38mm) on the bass side and 4/64th of an inch (1.59mm) on the treble side. Some may find this too high or too low, or not right depending on string gauge etc....

SOLUTION: Carefully adjust the bridge up or down very slightly. depending. Again, in your situation a little loosening of the truss will likely bring things back to happy. But, if you went lower gauge, you may adjust the truss a little looser than it originally was. The strings could end up slightly higher. Thus, lower them ever so slightly. Think 1/8th of a turn at at time, or adjust to the suggested height.

***INTERACTION ALERT: Remember, when you LOWER the action, the tension on the strings loosens. That will allow the neck to bend backwards. Be sure to tune to pitch after lowering, and before checking all the notes for feel, buzz, etc.

***Bends fret-out: If you are bending notes on the 12th or higher frets, this can happen because of the neck radius. Tight radius necks (like 12" on old Strats) can really have a problem with this and will need higher action.

#3 If a couple rounds of that do not get you to a good place, then the nut might be too low. A truss adjustment *might* help, but maybe not.

Check: Hold the string down at the third fret, see if the string hits the first or second frets. If so, you may need to raise the nut slightly, or get a new nut.

SOLUTION: An option is to put a very thin slip of paper, or cardboard, or flattened toothpick or anything under the nut and set it back in place. You can often place a nut with out glue. If you do use glue, use on a very little. Make sure it is right before you do that! A little sideways tap usually pops them off. Warning - they can break. Of course, after replacing the nut goes what? #1 and #2 all over again. Or, take to a tech or learn how to cut nut slots. I'll recommend get this done by someone. It requires nut blanks and some funky little files. It is totally doable, and not expensive, but kind of a little more than level 1 setup, and requires special tools.

#4 Now - this is a long shot, but it CAN happen. You may have had some frets raise up. I believe this is more often a high end of the neck thing, but could happen anywhere. When the truss bends an large amount, sometimes an ill-seated fret can raise up a bit, especially if it was back bow.

Check: If after checking all of that and adjusting a few rounds...you still have buzzes going on - adjust the truss so that the neck is perfectly flat. If you can't lay a straight edge on it without it rocking there is a raised fret or frets somewhere.

SOLUTION: If you are feeling frisky, gently tap the offending fret back in with a soft surface covering it and a soft mallet. DO NOT tap on the strings over the frets!!!! That will make dead spots and result in needing a new fret. Also, over do it and you may need a new fret/fret job. Take it to a luthier if this seems needed or #1/2/3 didn't work.

I defer to the wisdom of those who do this for a living. I don't.

I will say that learning to adjust the truss, the action, and the intonation and check these things is well worth the time. It really only requires a screwdriver and patience. You will be able to adjust it to your perfection, which most half-@$$ed alleged techs won't do.