BBQ vrs SH-14

[rspst14]

Re: BBQ vrs SH-14

The BBQ has more output than the Blues. The Blues is just slightly hotter than a PAF-style pickup, while the BBQ is about halfway between PAF and high output territory. It's hard to give a percentage difference between the BBQ and the C5, but the C5 was too high in output for me, while I find the BBQ to be hot without being too hot. It sounds like you'd be better off with a JB if you're looking for something with that much output.

Ryan

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: BBQ vrs SH-14

The Jb is too spikey and compressed I dont need that much gain either. I can deal with the C5 gain maybe about 5% less if the BBQ is around that. I like the C5 alot but the mids suck. I like the distortion pickup too but the gain is way too hot. I like the patb1 with an alnico 5 magnet stock and but it is a little covered and the axis designed pups sound more cardboardlike compared to regular style. I Have a Gibson classic goldtop and a dual rectifier. I was looking for a pup to tame the shrill highs of this amp. The patb1 does this but is not as open as I like. I think the BBQ is it but the gain is an issue. I did not like the gain of the Blues or the 57 classics and am afraid of that lack of gain being an issue. Thanks for your answers.

 

[Mac-P]

Re: BBQ vrs SH-14

First off, to my ears, the BBQ is WAY louder with more balls than the C5. I had both in the same guitar (91 Gibson SG Standard) with a Custom Shop chrome 59n in the neck.

The 59n overpowered the C5 easily. The problem was the lack of mid "push" with the C5. It was some bass and some tinkly high end. No body. The only thing audible over the band was treble.

The '59 sounded warm and full and when I'd switch to the C5 (also a Custom Shop chrome) the guitar sound just died. Got small, weak, low, etc. I raised the C5 pickup height. Lowered the '59. I had the C5 RIGHT up to the strings. I tried EVERYTHING (yes, it was wired correctly). Could NOT compensate for the lack of midrange. There was like a hole where the body of the guitar sound should be.

So I thought maybe my guitar was screwed up. I changed the pots to CTS. Same thing.

So I threw my old JB in there. NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE. All of a sudden I had to LOWER the bridge pickup. Yes, the mids made the pickup MUCH louder. The JB and '59 were a good match output wise. So I can conclude the JB is LOUDER than the C5. But we knew that looking at the specs.

But I still wanted more bass and less top end in the bridge. After trying a BUNCH of different pickups (Custom, Custom Custom, DiMarzio Air Zone, Tone Zone, Breed) nothing was doing it for me.

Enter the Rio Grande BBQ. Popped that pickup in there and woah.... MUCH louder and darker than everything before it, while still retaining the clarity (to give you an idea, the Tone Zone and Custom Custom were both too distorted for me). And the BBQ was MUCH bigger sounding in the low end. So much that it made that same '59 sound like a single coil. No lie. All of a sudden my NECK pickup sounded a bit thin. WOW. Definitely the fattest bridge pickup I had ever tried that still retained the clean.

So, my experience was ABSOLUTELY that the BBQ has more bass, mids, output, and balls than the C5. Not even in the same ballpark. I would say that it is most like a JB except with more bass, less treble and a BIT louder. Since the JB and BBQ have lots of mids the guitar sounds fatter and is MUCH MUCH more audible in the mix of a band.

On paper if one were to measure DC resistance you get an idea of electrical output, but there are other, more relevant factors that dictate or affect the sound. Obviously one of them is WHAT frequencies are emphasized. Mids make your guitar sound louder with more body on single notes.

That is the trouble in looking at specs on paper. Sometimes it is not reflected in the sound.

:burnout:

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: BBQ vrs SH-14

Great post. How is the gain on the BBQ in your oppinion? I hear its less than the C5 but by how much? 5%, 10% etc. It sounds like I may be getting a BBQ. How does the BBQ compare to a Distortion model Duncan? I know the distortion has alot of gain, too much IMO. What about the distortions eq compared to the BBQ? I also really like the PATB1 but more open. How does the BBQ compare to that one also? Thanks

 

[papersoul]

Re: BBQ vrs SH-14

Ryan and Mac are right on with this, but I have to agree with Mac - he nailed it! Installing the Rio BBQ into your guitar is like installing a flame thrower, while still allowing your guitar's natural tone to speak its voice. The BBQ has a HUGE footprint and ya can't miss it! It's not that it is necessarily hotter than the C-5, but it is just bigger and bolder in a band mix and feels like you have a bigger sound under your finger tips and louder as well - it's a fun pickup to play - very alive and vocal. This pickup drips thick tone. I have had it in an LP, Hamer Studio, Dean Evo, and Hamer Mirage and each guitar retained its voice.

I like that the BBQ is not there to play around, it is there to take charge and let you know that it means business with FAT tone - even my cleans are FAT with the BBQ. My cleans jump out with thick round tone that cut right through the band.

I have heard some complain of a lack of high end cut for leads or that it lacks the ability to handle a screaming lead line, but I really have to disagree. The lead tones are FAT and can scream easily.

 

[Mac-P]

Re: BBQ vrs SH-14

Great post. How is the gain on the BBQ in your oppinion? I hear its less than the C5 but by how much? 5%, 10% etc. It sounds like I may be getting a BBQ. How does the BBQ compare to a Distortion model Duncan? I know the distortion has alot of gain, too much IMO. What about the distortions eq compared to the BBQ? I also really like the PATB1 but more open. How does the BBQ compare to that one also? Thanks

I don't know what you are referring to when you say "gain". How loud the pickup is? If so, the BBQ is noticabley louder than the C5. VERY much more. To my ears- the difference between small and thin (sort of mosquito-ish) to big, bold and wide (like a tenor sax - I actually got the BBQ when I was in a band with a GREAT tenor sax player and whenever I took a solo after her I was sick of having the "smaller" tone. The BBQ solved that pronto). Like I said, more along the lines of a JB in terms of how it "jumps" out of the amp, but with more bass and less treble.


Or by "gain" do you mean how much distortion the pickup has? If so, the pikckup is clean but it doesn't f*ck around and hits your amp hard, no doubt. Again, VERY similar to the JB which is the pickup I believe it may have been based on originally. It doesn't have the distortion of, let's say, a Tone Zone which is hard to keep clean. Also the Custom Custom was way too distorted for me. I think the combo of hot winding and alnico 2 magnets in the CC don't leave a lot of headroom.

I have never tried the Duncan Distortion or PATB1, but I tend to like pickups that are loud and CLEAR. I'll get my distortion from the amp or pedal, thank you.

Ryan and Mac are right on with this, but I have to agree with Mac - he nailed it! Installing the Rio BBQ into your guitar is like installing a flame thrower, while still allowing your guitar's natural tone to speak its voice. The BBQ has a HUGE footprint and ya can't miss it! It's not that it is necessarily hotter than the C-5, but it is just bigger and bolder in a band mix and feels like you have a bigger sound under your finger tips and louder as well - it's a fun pickup to play - very alive and vocal. This pickup drips thick tone. I have had it in an LP, Hamer Studio, Dean Evo, and Hamer Mirage and each guitar retained its voice.

I like that the BBQ is not there to play around, it is there to take charge and let you know that it means business with FAT tone - even my cleans are FAT with the BBQ. My cleans jump out with thick round tone that cut right through the band.

I have heard some complain of a lack of high end cut for leads or that it lacks the ability to handle a screaming lead line, but I really have to disagree. The lead tones are FAT and can scream easily.

Agreed, but I do thing the BBQ is much hotter (louder, ballsier, however you wanna say it) than the C5

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: BBQ vrs SH-14

Yes I was talking about distortion. The patb1 is based off the JB also and has a little more distortion than the C5

 

[papersoul]

Re: BBQ vrs SH-14

Mac, what style of music do you play? Jam band, etc? Right now my band is basically hard rock and fairly modern sounding. The BBQ hass huge balls that always makes the hair on my nexk stand up at practice. I hear it time and time again that the BBQ doesn't have the cut for leads.....but I am not sure how those folks are EQing their amp.

Now, I sent a BBQ to a custom pickup winder for an opinion and his thoughts were that it was rather one dimensional, too dark, lacking cut for leads and had no character. I do not feel this way at all! He also said he confesses to liking a thinner tone! So, it really depends who you ask. Mac and I like THICK and WARM tone! I also think Ryan may be of the same crowd. Keep in mind the BBQ stayed tight and clear for me playing almost slayer style music.

 

[Mac-P]

Re: BBQ vrs SH-14

Mac, what style of music do you play? Jam band, etc? Right now my band is basically hard rock and fairly modern sounding. The BBQ hass huge balls that always makes the hair on my nexk stand up at practice. I hear it time and time again that the BBQ doesn't have the cut for leads.....but I am not sure how those folks are EQing their amp.

Now, I sent a BBQ to a custom pickup winder for an opinion and his thoughts were that it was rather one dimensional, too dark, lacking cut for leads and had no character. I do not feel this way at all! He also said he confesses to liking a thinner tone!

Hey, different people like different tone, no doubt. One person's "one dimensional, too dark & lacking cut" is another's "warm, rich, organic with just the 'right' amount of treble".

I have always had real specific taste when it comes to sound and started off with an idea of what I was looking for until I found it. I find the BBQ to be voiced exactly the way I like a bridge pickup to sound. It makes me smile sometimes. I just find myself switching to the bridge because it sounds so good.

As far as the BBQ not having enough "cut" for leads, well, that's just silly. Like you said, you have to EQ your amp the right way for ANY pickup, but also you need the right neck pickup so that the set is balanced.

If you put a Duncan Jazz in the neck slot and a BBQ in the bridge, the Jazz is gonna seem way too small sounding and trebly at the same amp settings that make the BBQ sound good. On the other hand, if you set the amp so that the Jazz sounds good, the BBQ is gonna be real dark and slightly muffled sounding. So matching pickups is real important, and then obviously, amp type and settings are the icing on the cake.

And yes, I play jamband stuff as well as rock, funk, fusion, bluegrass, reggae, afro beat, world beat, etc. I like it all. Good music is good music!

Peace! :burnout:

 

[papersoul]

Re: BBQ vrs SH-14

It's funny comparing my LP and McCarty to my Dean Evo with BBQ. The Dean is so much more powerful and prominent/louder on the clean channel than the other guitars. I may end up with BBQs in all of these guitars, but I am confident all will still have their own voice while retaining the BBQ's power.

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: BBQ vrs SH-14

Would an alnico pro 2 neck go well with a BBQ?

 

[Mac-P]

Re: BBQ vrs SH-14

Would an alnico pro 2 neck go well with a BBQ?

I think the Alnico 2 Pro would be too weak for the BBQ. The Pearly Gates is more or less an hotwound Alnico 2 Pro. And it was a bit too small for the BBQ.

That's the issue with different pickup brands sometimes. They don't play nice with each other.

To my ear, most Duncans are designed with a lot of top end clarity (PS; bright).

The Rio Grande pickups are just the opposite; lots of lows, mids and output (PS; dark).

I tried the Jazz, Pearly Gates, and '59 with the BBQ and all seemed too "single coil-ish" at the same amp settings that the BBQ sounds good at. I had this ROAR with the bridge, and switching to the neck got ALL sorts of twangy. (Those same neck pickups sounded great with a JB by the way).

(Of course, on the other hand if I set the amp for the Duncan necks, the BBQ was a bit muffled, too loud and too bassy).

So I figured that the Rio guys just really like big sound (people hear things differently). So I ordered their Genuine Texas neck (the matching pickup for the BBQ).

Well, it definitely solved the problem. Too much!
I think the Texas neck is slightly TOO dark and needs a BIT more treble. I still have it in that guitar, and have compensated some with pickup height, but it still is a tiny bit too dark for my taste. It is by far the best match I have found yet mind you (no surprise there).....

I am actually going to try out the original Gibson neck pickup that came in the guitar. I remember when I first switched it for the '59 I thought the '59 sounded a bit single coil-ish (I loved it). So that probably means that the Gibson was a bit louder and a tad darker. But is was so long ago!

I just moved so I haven't set up my work area yet.....

:dance: