Best-sounding attenuator?

[RLee]

There are many choices for power attenuators in the 50 to 100 watt power range, but which one does the best job at moderate-to-high levels of attenuation and sucks the least amount of tone? Some of the choices:

THD hotplate
Koch Loadbox
Dr Z Airbrake
Marshall Power Brake
Ultimate Attenuator
Weber Mass
Bad Cat

 

[jeremy]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

id drop the marshall from that list.

the problem you are going to have is that when you use it "at moderate-to-high levels of attenuation" they are all going to suck a good amount of tone, not to mention the fact that the speakers will sound much differently when pushed hard vs not pushed at all.

i have a mass and its great, the airbrake and ultimate are good too.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

I own a Hot Plate, but I've heard that the Weber and Ultimates are better. I've never direct-compared any attenuator against another, and I don't know anyone that has, so ... can't say which is 'best', but I've never had a problem with my Hot Plate, sonic or otherwise.

 

[Kostas]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

Check the reviews for this http://www.faustineamps.com/phantom.html It's supposed to be the "best" attenuator. It is very expensive though...

 

[jeremy]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

never heard of that but his claims are nothing new.

if you look at the weber mass, its basically a speaker motor. it reacts just like a speaker just doesnt make any sound. you chose how much sound goes to the real speaker and how much goes to the dummy speaker. it works great for knocking down the volume a little but once you start running less power to the real speaker, it stops reacting the same way. i have seen people running a low wattage speaker when they use their attenuator.

so they use a 4x12 with v30's when using their 100w plexi ri run loud and use a 2x12 with greenbacks when they use the attenuator. the two cabs dont sound much a like but the tone is good in both cases and the volume is significantly reduced. still if the volume is brought down too much the tone suffers. this is why companies put the compensation circuits in.

 

[RLee]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

id drop the marshall from that list.

the problem you are going to have is that when you use it "at moderate-to-high levels of attenuation" they are all going to suck a good amount of tone, not to mention the fact that the speakers will sound much differently when pushed hard vs not pushed at all.

i have a mass and its great, the airbrake and ultimate are good too.

Yeah I realize that to get that true "driven" tone you have to push air, I was just wondering which of the current attenuators out there people were using and liking. I've heard consistently good things about the weber mass. But it seems that with all reviews of attenuators, you get the "hey it's great, I love it," immediately followed by an equal number of "This sucks!"

 

[jeremy]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

they are a great tool for bringing down the volume a little but you bring it down too much and you lose the tone. there is no way around it that anyone has shown me.

part of it is pushing air, part of it is pushing the speaker enough, part of it is the way our ears work, etc...

i am a die hard tube junkie but for bedroom playing i use a little ss combo. a little 1w tube amp like the zvex nano thru a 1x12 is great for the bedroom but even a 5w amp cranked up to get the goods is probably too loud for the bedroom

 

[Chas]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

Some of those on the list are more than the $250 AC4TV by Vox which is what I would recommend for bedroom use. It has 1/4 , 1 and 4 watt settings. I agree with Jeremy because on the 4 watt setting the AC4TV will wake the kids up.

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

I love the Weber Mini-MASS I have screwed into the back of my 18-Watter clone combo. Since the amp only has two knobs (volume and tone) I use the volume control to setr the about of drive (like you'd use a preamp gain control on a modern amp) and them use the Mini-MASS like a master volume.

NO attenuator will give you bedroom-to-arena volume scaling. The best first step in good tone is to match the amp to the intended use. Then, use the attenuator to dial it in. I usually use my MASS from 100% down to maybe 25-30%. Bedroom levels are lower than that, and don't sound as good.

 

[RLee]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

Check the reviews for this http://www.faustineamps.com/phantom.html It's supposed to be the "best" attenuator. It is very expensive though...

Thanks for the link... very interesting site, because it provides lots of clips and videos demonstrating it. The one I found most interesting is the video clip by Lance Keltner. There's also a clip that compares the Ultimate against the Faustine. From what I heard -- and it's difficult/impossible to judge an attenuator online, IMO -- it sounds really promising, a big step up from others I've heard, but I'd have to hear it in person.

But the downside is the steep price. At $749, it costs as much or more than many amps. And even worse, the "Order" page is very off-putting, where they talk about the big waiting list, and trying to find a production partner for the next run of units, and the fact that the price will go up even more once they get going with the next shipments. They also mention "collecting deposits" for upcoming orders. All understandable things, but a bit intimidating for the buyer. It may be a stellar unit, but it's being marketed in a less than stellar fashion. Hopefully that will improve, as will the price. (14 hours to build one unit? I'd like to state an opinion on that, since I have experience in production electronics, but I really can't, since I have no idea of its innards.)

 

[Kostas]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

... But the downside is the steep price. At $749, it costs as much or more than many amps. And even worse, the "Order" page is very off-putting, where they talk about the big waiting list, and trying to find a production partner for the next run of units, and the fact that the price will go up even more once they get going with the next shipments. They also mention "collecting deposits" for upcoming orders. All understandable things, but a bit intimidating for the buyer. It may be a stellar unit, but it's being marketed in a less than stellar fashion. Hopefully that will improve, as will the price. (14 hours to build one unit? I'd like to state an opinion on that, since I have experience in production electronics, but I really can't, since I have no idea of its innards.)

I don't think the price will improve, the site says it will raise! The unit is marketed for pro musicians or people who just have the money. I have read many threads on various forums and people who I trust their opinion say it is the "best" at the time. I have only experience with the Bad Cat unit and I don't like it, they make amazing amps but their attenuator is not of my taste.

The wait on the Faustine is months. I'm on the list 35 days and have not heard from them. I don't even know if I'll have the money when it's my turn... I understand they email you and take a deposit when they are ready to make yours and you pay the rest of the money before shipping.

I hope you checked Peter Thorn's clip, he's an amazing guitarist and he makes the best demo clips. Check his Suhr Badger clips. I had the Badger 30 and the power scaling is the best thing I have ever experienced. It is another option, to instal power scaling in your amp.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

This might be an insane question, but what would happen if you just fix the speaker membranes so that they can't move?

It will still be a little different since the moving membranes spends time in a place with different pull from the magnet but is should be pretty close.

 

[RLee]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

id drop the marshall from that list.

the problem you are going to have is that when you use it "at moderate-to-high levels of attenuation" they are all going to suck a good amount of tone, not to mention the fact that the speakers will sound much differently when pushed hard vs not pushed at all.

i have a mass and its great, the airbrake and ultimate are good too.

Between the mass and the airbrake, which do you prefer?

 

[jeremy]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

i like the mass better but someone else might like the airbrake better. at lower levels of attenuation they both sound about the same and both sound great. at higher levels it seems the mass loses a little more high end and the airbrake sounds a touch thinner. at really high levels the tone is gone with both (and every other one ive tried)

 

[StillLearnin']

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

I see a slam on the Marshall Power Brake in here - that's about the only one on the list that *doesn't* suck the tone dry. I have a Hot Plate, two Power Brakes, a Mass and a Mass Lite. The Hot Plate is second after the Power Brake as far as not altering tone but still pulling highs out - the Webers suck all the high end out and change the whole character of the amp. I use an old JTM45, a mid 80's 800 and a late 70's JMP as far as amps go - so I like the Marshall sound and want to keep it that way. If you want to "convert" your amp's tone into something else (and for some reason, a lot of people do), the Webers will do the trick - but if you like your tone, the only one that really keeps it is the Power Brake.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

I tried a few and settled on the Weber.

It has treble compensation (0, +3dB, and +6dB) to ameliorate the "muddy" stereotype, the speaker motor concept just plain makes sense, it's durable, and at a better price than most of the others.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

What's the difference between an attenuator and a power soak?

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

Two types of Weber Attenuators:

​

An attenuator has a speaker motor, and a power soak is purely a resistive load.

In real terms: a "MASS" style attenuator has a no-**** speaker coil inside of it, where a power-soak just has resistors.

Ted Weber said:

Some Weber Attenuators use power resistors to effect a purely resistive load on the amp. These attenuators are much like the other attenuators on the market, and provide a less natural sounding tone when heavily attenuated. Our resistive models are the High Power Load Dump, Low Power Load Dump, Mega Dump, and Headphone Tap.

Other Weber Attenuators utilize an actual speaker motor to apply a reactive load on the amp. The attenuators are unlike any other on the market, and provide a much more interactive, natural sound when in use. They affect the tone less than the resistor-based models. The speaker motor units are the MASS, MiniMass, MicroMass, Stereo MASS, MASS 150, MASS Lite, and Power Tap.

http://www.tedweber.com/atten.htm

 

[uOpt]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

/me puts on wishlist.

 

[MattPete]

Re: Best-sounding attenuator?

I have a Weber, and it sucks tone.

I've had great results using power scaling/VVR on a Plexi and on an Ax84 P1extreme, but those are internal mods.