Bill Lawrence USA vs. Original Bill Lawrence
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idsnowdog
Imperator of Indignation
Re: Bill Lawrence USA vs. Original Bill Lawrence
There is a lot of BS being spread about the differences between BL USA and Bill & Becky pickups. Many who own the Bill & Becky pickups like to throw mud at the BL USA pickups without ever trying them. The mudslingers are just cork sniffers. The differences in tone are subtle and there are also subtle differences in the materials used. Both pickups are well made and a good value. There is a mp3 comparison of the BL USA and the Bill & Becky pickups.
The differences are subtle:
The Dime is the brightest and dirtiest of the three.
The BL USA is the cleanest and most defined of the three.
The Bill & Becky is the warmest of the three.
There is a lot of BS being spread about the differences between BL USA and Bill & Becky pickups. Many who own the Bill & Becky pickups like to throw mud at the BL USA pickups without ever trying them. The mudslingers are just cork sniffers. The differences in tone are subtle and there are also subtle differences in the materials used. Both pickups are well made and a good value. There is a mp3 comparison of the BL USA and the Bill & Becky pickups.
The differences are subtle:
The Dime is the brightest and dirtiest of the three.
The BL USA is the cleanest and most defined of the three.
The Bill & Becky is the warmest of the three.
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idsnowdog
Imperator of Indignation
Re: Bill Lawrence USA vs. Original Bill Lawrence
I like the clarity of the BL USA and the warmth of the Bill & Becky. I would probably buy the BL USA because they are easy to find used. Nothing against Bill & Becky I am just impatient and cheap.
TheLivingDead
Dawn Of The Shred
Re: Bill Lawrence USA vs. Original Bill Lawrence
Those assessments seem to be dead on! Never seen it put so plainly. Thanks for that.
Those assessments seem to be dead on! Never seen it put so plainly. Thanks for that.
Frogman
New member
Re: Bill Lawrence USA vs. Original Bill Lawrence
Think about this.
Bill & Becky (Wilde) pickups are hand-wound. Hand-wound by the same guy who have been wiring aftermarket pickups for 40+ years.
Not to mention, B&B offer a wide range of other pickups than the 500 series (L90's, L-600's, L-609's, L610's, single coils and teles.
Hand wound + no middle man = no brainer, IMO.
Think about this.
Bill & Becky (Wilde) pickups are hand-wound. Hand-wound by the same guy who have been wiring aftermarket pickups for 40+ years.
Not to mention, B&B offer a wide range of other pickups than the 500 series (L90's, L-600's, L-609's, L610's, single coils and teles.
Hand wound + no middle man = no brainer, IMO.
Re: Bill Lawrence USA vs. Original Bill Lawrence
There's really 4 models of the L-500XL counting the Dimebucker.
Dimebucker is the harshest and hottest of the options, which is what Dimebag wanted out of his signature pickup. Still quite similar to the L-500XL, as idsnowdog says, though I think it's not as subtle a difference as the differences between the other models.
Original Bill Lawrence. Made with ceramic magnet.
The BL USA is probably closest to the original. It went through a period of poor quality control, problems with squealing despite being epoxy potted. People still take pot shots at them over that, but I haven't run across any new complaints about that with a new one in years. (BLUSA also offers the L-500R and L-500L.)
Sometimes nasty ceramic edge on the OBL & BLUSA. Pretty much unavoidable on the Dimebucker.
B&B switched to A5 due to supplier issues with the ceramic he'd been using, and redesigned the pickup to get the same sound. It's very close, but as idsnowdog says, a bit warmer. I'd also add a bit less harsh. Which isn't a plus to everyone, but to people who don't like ceramic presence, it's a huge plus. It's still a biting, broad frequency range pickup, though.
I think the B&B is the best quality, and they offer the most additional variations (L-500C, L-500R and L-500L). And they offer the chrome shield that gives a bit of extra hum reduction, particularly when split.
But the difference between very good quality and excellent isn't a lot. I lean towards rewarding the inventor, as well as preferring the less harsh sound of the current L-500XL.
Note, I've only heard the L-500XL models, not the C/R/L of all competitors.]
There's really 4 models of the L-500XL counting the Dimebucker.
Dimebucker is the harshest and hottest of the options, which is what Dimebag wanted out of his signature pickup. Still quite similar to the L-500XL, as idsnowdog says, though I think it's not as subtle a difference as the differences between the other models.
Original Bill Lawrence. Made with ceramic magnet.
The BL USA is probably closest to the original. It went through a period of poor quality control, problems with squealing despite being epoxy potted. People still take pot shots at them over that, but I haven't run across any new complaints about that with a new one in years. (BLUSA also offers the L-500R and L-500L.)
Sometimes nasty ceramic edge on the OBL & BLUSA. Pretty much unavoidable on the Dimebucker.
B&B switched to A5 due to supplier issues with the ceramic he'd been using, and redesigned the pickup to get the same sound. It's very close, but as idsnowdog says, a bit warmer. I'd also add a bit less harsh. Which isn't a plus to everyone, but to people who don't like ceramic presence, it's a huge plus. It's still a biting, broad frequency range pickup, though.
I think the B&B is the best quality, and they offer the most additional variations (L-500C, L-500R and L-500L). And they offer the chrome shield that gives a bit of extra hum reduction, particularly when split.
But the difference between very good quality and excellent isn't a lot. I lean towards rewarding the inventor, as well as preferring the less harsh sound of the current L-500XL.
Note, I've only heard the L-500XL models, not the C/R/L of all competitors.]
Ayrton
New member
Re: Bill Lawrence USA vs. Original Bill Lawrence
Both Nuno and Dime used both versions actually. This has been debated about as much as what pup EVH used...
I have used both in the same guitar many times, and prefer the B&B version simply because it is less bright.
Both Nuno and Dime used both versions actually. This has been debated about as much as what pup EVH used...
I have used both in the same guitar many times, and prefer the B&B version simply because it is less bright.
Mr 9finger
Digitally Challenged
Re: Bill Lawrence USA vs. Original Bill Lawrence
I kind of look at this way.
Bill Lawrence = Seymour Duncan
Bill Lawrence USA = Duncan Design
Dimebucker = Bee colony trapped in a pop can.
Settling the Dimebag dispute. Dime started out playing an original L500L. Back when he started playing, there wasn't an XL model. Later down the road, that pickup got killed, as Dime was pretty rough with the DFH and his 79 burst ML. By this time in the early 90's, Bill had already split with his old partner and was making pickups on his own and for other companies like Gibson and the HBL/OBL line. Most people didn't know there were 2 Bill Lawrence pickup companies at the time and even less knew about Bill making pickups. It's all around the same time Dime swapped his original 500L out for a BL USA 500XL from Stew Mac, and it still resides in his Dean From Hell to this day.
I kind of look at this way.
Bill Lawrence = Seymour Duncan
Bill Lawrence USA = Duncan Design
Dimebucker = Bee colony trapped in a pop can.
Settling the Dimebag dispute. Dime started out playing an original L500L. Back when he started playing, there wasn't an XL model. Later down the road, that pickup got killed, as Dime was pretty rough with the DFH and his 79 burst ML. By this time in the early 90's, Bill had already split with his old partner and was making pickups on his own and for other companies like Gibson and the HBL/OBL line. Most people didn't know there were 2 Bill Lawrence pickup companies at the time and even less knew about Bill making pickups. It's all around the same time Dime swapped his original 500L out for a BL USA 500XL from Stew Mac, and it still resides in his Dean From Hell to this day.
devastone
New member
Re: Bill Lawrence USA vs. Original Bill Lawrence
They were originally the same company as 9finger stated, I started using them back in the early 80s when they were made in Nashville before the split.
Now, I use the B&Bs, love those pickups, and I like the fact that they were made by the same guy that designed them. And as stated, they are warmer than the USA version (yes, I have had both), although the difference isn't huge. They are great pickups, but different, they are designed for clarity and not to boost/cut any specific frequencies, so they will amplify the natural tone of the guitar they are in.
FWIW, I called them with questions years ago, and Bill actually answered the phone, super nice guy and he will give you more info than you can process. Another reason I will support them over the USA ones. The USA company just has a cheezy kinda vibe to them.
And as Aryton said, Dime and Nuno have used both versions, I think both of them started using BLs before the split.
And FWIW, the "XL" originally was just the "Lead" version and there was also a "Rhythm" version. The Lead became the XL and a slightly less hot version became the "L". The R is the original Rhythm and the C was a brighter version with less output that Bill made for *EDIT* Ronnie Montrose *EDIT*. The C is a great neck pickup if you want a super clear, single coil-ish sound in a hb, but it is very bright.
Anyway, I'm rambling, great pickups, I prefer the "original"...
They were originally the same company as 9finger stated, I started using them back in the early 80s when they were made in Nashville before the split.
Now, I use the B&Bs, love those pickups, and I like the fact that they were made by the same guy that designed them. And as stated, they are warmer than the USA version (yes, I have had both), although the difference isn't huge. They are great pickups, but different, they are designed for clarity and not to boost/cut any specific frequencies, so they will amplify the natural tone of the guitar they are in.
FWIW, I called them with questions years ago, and Bill actually answered the phone, super nice guy and he will give you more info than you can process. Another reason I will support them over the USA ones. The USA company just has a cheezy kinda vibe to them.
And as Aryton said, Dime and Nuno have used both versions, I think both of them started using BLs before the split.
And FWIW, the "XL" originally was just the "Lead" version and there was also a "Rhythm" version. The Lead became the XL and a slightly less hot version became the "L". The R is the original Rhythm and the C was a brighter version with less output that Bill made for *EDIT* Ronnie Montrose *EDIT*. The C is a great neck pickup if you want a super clear, single coil-ish sound in a hb, but it is very bright.
Anyway, I'm rambling, great pickups, I prefer the "original"...
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idsnowdog
Imperator of Indignation
Re: Bill Lawrence USA vs. Original Bill Lawrence
That's correct. They are basically a lower ouput model but they have a very similar tone. I have used a number of BL pickups and he definitely has a design philosophy that stresses clarity, transparency and definition . If there's one consistent criticism of BL products it's that they are very bright, which some people don't like.
tone4days
Heel Whacker
Re: Bill Lawrence USA vs. Original Bill Lawrence
hmm, was not aware they were ever made in nashville ... i believe that they were made in pennsylvania (north of philly) for a while .... that's when i got my 500XLs ('86 timeframe) .... still have em - theyve aged beautifully - still massive sounding yet clear
i hear bill underwent another round of chemo and is back out of the hospital after a setback ... understand that he is back to work too (at age 80!) ... best wishes for a full and fast return to health for him
hmm, was not aware they were ever made in nashville ... i believe that they were made in pennsylvania (north of philly) for a while .... that's when i got my 500XLs ('86 timeframe) .... still have em - theyve aged beautifully - still massive sounding yet clear
i hear bill underwent another round of chemo and is back out of the hospital after a setback ... understand that he is back to work too (at age 80!) ... best wishes for a full and fast return to health for him
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Frogman
New member
Re: Bill Lawrence USA vs. Original Bill Lawrence
"The L-500 is a blade-style humbucker that can be retrofitted in both full-size humbucker and P-90/P-100 routs (see Dimensions post below)! The blades are 56mm/2.205" long, and will accommodate the string spacing of all known 6-string bridges (remember that the bridge pickup is not mounted at the saddles!).
L-500's are designed to deliver as much output passively whilst maintaining clarity and without sterility. If even higher output is required, EMG active pickups are recommended.
To deliver great tonal flexibility, the lead/bridge versions (L & XL) especially are recommended to be used in conjunction with the Q-Filter.
The L-500 comes in four versions:
C = 2.8 Henry
R = 4.8 Henry
L = 6.8 Henry
XL = 9.2 Henry
The XL requires at least 500K pots, whereas the other 500s can be used with 250K or 500K pots (all audio taper).
All 500's are extremely loud and therefore don't really mix well with other pickups. The XL without the load of the controls is ear-piercingly bright, but with a 500 kilo ohm pot loses about 50 percent of the higher end. With the EQ Filter [(Q-Filter)], you can gradually [effectively] reduce the inductance of the XL and get a tremendous variety of sounds.
The L with 250K pots is tonally voiced very similarly to the XL with 500K pots, but theres not quite as much punch. And if you employ a Q-Filter, theres not as much bandwidth to operate on, which means that the tonal variation that can be achieved is not as extensive as for the XL."
"The L-500 is a blade-style humbucker that can be retrofitted in both full-size humbucker and P-90/P-100 routs (see Dimensions post below)! The blades are 56mm/2.205" long, and will accommodate the string spacing of all known 6-string bridges (remember that the bridge pickup is not mounted at the saddles!).
L-500's are designed to deliver as much output passively whilst maintaining clarity and without sterility. If even higher output is required, EMG active pickups are recommended.
To deliver great tonal flexibility, the lead/bridge versions (L & XL) especially are recommended to be used in conjunction with the Q-Filter.
The L-500 comes in four versions:
C = 2.8 Henry
R = 4.8 Henry
L = 6.8 Henry
XL = 9.2 Henry
The XL requires at least 500K pots, whereas the other 500s can be used with 250K or 500K pots (all audio taper).
All 500's are extremely loud and therefore don't really mix well with other pickups. The XL without the load of the controls is ear-piercingly bright, but with a 500 kilo ohm pot loses about 50 percent of the higher end. With the EQ Filter [(Q-Filter)], you can gradually [effectively] reduce the inductance of the XL and get a tremendous variety of sounds.
The L with 250K pots is tonally voiced very similarly to the XL with 500K pots, but theres not quite as much punch. And if you employ a Q-Filter, theres not as much bandwidth to operate on, which means that the tonal variation that can be achieved is not as extensive as for the XL."
richard parker
New member
Re: Bill Lawrence USA vs. Original Bill Lawrence
Handwound ? Here's what Bill has to say about handwound pups:
Hand vs Machine
Do you really believe someone hand-guides 8000 turns of copper wire that is as thin as a human hair on a bobbin to complete, maybe, 30 coils per day and can guaranty any consistency? A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!
Handwound ? Here's what Bill has to say about handwound pups:
Hand vs Machine
Do you really believe someone hand-guides 8000 turns of copper wire that is as thin as a human hair on a bobbin to complete, maybe, 30 coils per day and can guaranty any consistency? A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!
