Bill Lawrence (Wilde) L500's

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GreekGuru74

New member
I have a set of L500's in my Les Paul that are the USA version (XL in bridge, R in the neck) and absolutely love them. I have them wired up to 500K pots. For my new guitar (Gibson SG Supreme), I will be ordering another set of L500's but this time from Wilde pickups aka Bill and Becky.

What is the difference between the shielded and unshielded versions of the L500's? I really like the sharp top end attack of the current L500's I have in my Les Paul. I have read that the shielded ones with the chrome ring are a little softer in their attack and not as strong in the top end? Is this true? Or is the difference between the two so small that it's barely noticeable? Are the shielded ones that much quieter than the regular ones? The regular ones are already very silent and hum free. I much prefer the look of the shielded ones (I think the chrome housing matches the blades really nicely and looks cool), however, I don't want to loose that strong/sharp top end attack my current L500's have(which are the none shielded ones from USA not Wilde).

What is the difference between the L500L and the L500XL? I have read conflicting info about the two. I have read from Bill Lawrence's Pickupology write up and as well from other people that as you increase inductance/output you lose high end. Some people have written that the XL is compressed while the L is more dynamic and has more top end and others have written that the XL is brighter and punchier and very dynamic. I have never played the L500L, but my L500xl seems pretty dynamic for a high output pickup. What exactly is the difference between these two models?

On the website under wiring and tech info it states that models over a certain inductance range (like the L500XL) should be used with 500K pots or higher. For the L500XL, would it be better to use a 1 meg pot instead of a 500k pot? What would a 1 Meg pot sound like with the R in the neck position?

I understand as you increase inductance you gain output but also lose top end. I want to retain as much top end as possible. Would a L500XL with 1 Meg pots sound similar to a L500L with 500K pots if the L500L is indeed brighter?

There are a lot of questions here as there is not that much info or videos about these pickups. I have read almost every thread from every forum I have found about these pickups.

Thank you.
 
Re: Bill Lawrence (Wilde) L500's

Surprised no one responded...
I had a shielded and unshielded b&b L500XL in two guitars at the same time last year. They seemed equally quiet to me. There were subtle differences in the tone but very subtle. I would describe the unshielded as more "transparent." You got a bit more woodiness compared to the shielded. There was a small difference in the mids and high mids too, but that could have been the same variation you get in any two examples of "the same" pickup. The shielded felt a little fatter, a little less high mids. Both sounded in the same ballpark, though.

I cannot answer your other questions.
 
Re: Bill Lawrence (Wilde) L500's

Sorry for the late answer. Let's try to be useful...

1)IME, the difference between "vintage" L500's, current USA and current Wilde ones is greater than any difference between shielded and unshielded ones

Among current L500's, USA ones sound brighter than Wilde's IME. I think it's due to the magnets used - ceramic in USA models and AlNiCo in Wilde iterations... at least that's what my measurements seem to confirm, since I've found more inductance in Wilde models for a same measured DCR and a similar architecture...but I don't know if it's true for the whole production.

2)The difference between L500L and L500XL is 30% more inductance. And yes, IME, XL's are more compressed / warmer although they keep the distinctive qualities of a BL design. Never tried a XL with 1M pots.

FWIW. Good luck in your quest, OP...
 
Re: Bill Lawrence (Wilde) L500's

Ive used many Wilde pups since 2001 or so and I cant honestly hear a difference between a shielded or unshielded.

Also from what I gather since 2005 Wilde L500’s (C,R,L,XL) use an Alnico-5 magnet. Prior to that they were ceramic.
 
Re: Bill Lawrence (Wilde) L500's

I've been playing with Wilde pickups for > 15 years. I believe the metal surround is cosmetic rather than "shielding." I've played with an L-500L, all white (meaning with a white surround), without any noise whatsoever in a venue near the transformers that dim the lights. Noisy as hell. But the L-500L is the quietest humbucker I ever had in that guitar in that venue, and COMPLETELY noiseless. The Custom Custom was the noisiest.
 
Re: Bill Lawrence (Wilde) L500's

Ayrton said:
The 500L, 500XL, and 500XXL are different output levels.
Click to expand...

Actually, there is no XXL, except for the Dimebucker. Darrell went to Bill Lawrence and asked him to make an XXL, and Bill said it went against his philosophy of pickup design. So then he went to Duncan, who accomodated him.
 
Re: Bill Lawrence (Wilde) L500's

GreekGuru74 said:
I have a set of L500's in my Les Paul that are the USA version (XL in bridge, R in the neck) and absolutely love them. I have them wired up to 500K pots. For my new guitar (Gibson SG Supreme), I will be ordering another set of L500's but this time from Wilde pickups aka Bill and Becky.

What is the difference between the shielded and unshielded versions of the L500's? I really like the sharp top end attack of the current L500's I have in my Les Paul. I have read that the shielded ones with the chrome ring are a little softer in their attack and not as strong in the top end? Is this true? Or is the difference between the two so small that it's barely noticeable? Are the shielded ones that much quieter than the regular ones? The regular ones are already very silent and hum free. I much prefer the look of the shielded ones (I think the chrome housing matches the blades really nicely and looks cool), however, I don't want to loose that strong/sharp top end attack my current L500's have(which are the none shielded ones from USA not Wilde).

What is the difference between the L500L and the L500XL? I have read conflicting info about the two. I have read from Bill Lawrence's Pickupology write up and as well from other people that as you increase inductance/output you lose high end. Some people have written that the XL is compressed while the L is more dynamic and has more top end and others have written that the XL is brighter and punchier and very dynamic. I have never played the L500L, but my L500xl seems pretty dynamic for a high output pickup. What exactly is the difference between these two models?

On the website under wiring and tech info it states that models over a certain inductance range (like the L500XL) should be used with 500K pots or higher. For the L500XL, would it be better to use a 1 meg pot instead of a 500k pot? What would a 1 Meg pot sound like with the R in the neck position?

I understand as you increase inductance you gain output but also lose top end. I want to retain as much top end as possible. Would a L500XL with 1 Meg pots sound similar to a L500L with 500K pots if the L500L is indeed brighter?

There are a lot of questions here as there is not that much info or videos about these pickups. I have read almost every thread from every forum I have found about these pickups.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

I don't think that 1M pots will help you. BL's philosophy was to maximize clarity at all times and in all designs. 500K should be plenty.

If you want to hear what L-500L's sound like in context, Alex Lifeson used that model in his strats during the grace under pressure album. You can see it and hear it in this video:

 
Re: Bill Lawrence (Wilde) L500's

jmcorey said:
Actually, there is no XXL, except for the Dimebucker. Darrell went to Bill Lawrence and asked him to make an XXL, and Bill said it went against his philosophy of pickup design. So then he went to Duncan, who accomodated him.
Click to expand...

See these posts from circa 2007:

jmh151 said:
So I picked up a used 1993 Jackson Soloist today that had a stock Bill Lawrence bridge and 2 Jackson stacked singles. The Lawrence sounded killer, and different than the Bill and Becky XL 500 (or L-500 XL- whatever you want to call it). I figured it was probably the guitar itself that sounded killer.

So I take the guitar home, and immediately dismantle every and begin a setup. I unscrew the bridge pickup, and it is stamped "Bill Lawrence USA". Not only that, it has a green circular sticker that says XXL on it....

Anyone that knows the background knows that Dimebag had what he claimed was a Lawrence L-500 XXL in his Cowboys from Hell guitar. When he claimed he couldn't get those pickups anymore, he had Seymour Duncan build him the Dimebucker- an improvement or copy of this pickup.

I haven't heard the Dimebucker, but this pickup is completely killer, much different than the Bill and Becky L-500 XL. It can be icepicky, which leads me to believe it may sound liek aDimebucker though I've never played a Dimebucker.

I'll try to post pics, but the blades are thinner than the Bill and Beckys, and it has a much deeper epoxy potting.

Anyway, the myth about an L-500 XXL is true, it did exist, I have one, and it was made by the Bill Lawrence USA company, not Bill and Becky. I'll post pics ove rthe weekend.
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and


Mr 9finger said:
According to Bill and this is straight from the mans mouth when I asked. He made several a pickup for Dime through the years. There was experimental pickups that was made for him while he was w/ Washburn. These included the XXL, XL+, and the XXL+.

So yes there were some XXL's made through out the years and Bill had said that he use to wind them for whoever back then, but choses not to now because he doesn't like the way they sound.

Those of you that have gotten the chance to talk to Bill or the Mrs., you'll know real quick that if Bill doesn't like the way it sounds, you have no chance of it ever getting to your hands directly from them. This is also why it takes a long time for Bill to put out new offerings. His design and testing regimen is extremely specific and won't release anything until it has is stamp of approval. Not something you see all that much from a very small companies like Bill Lawrence Wilde Pickups.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Bill Lawrence (Wilde) L500's

So then he went to Duncan, who accommodated him.
Click to expand...

I will bet that money had something to do with that....
Bill's operation couldn't pay enough for an endorsement deal, and Duncan would cut Darrell in on a slice of every Dimebag sold.
I have no proof, but it's just my feeling.
 
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Re: Bill Lawrence (Wilde) L500's

Could be, but the "he didn't like the way they sounded so he stopped making them" also sounds right.
I never met or spoke to the man and those who did all agree he was a lovely person, but when you read his writings and interviews it is clear he had a "it's my way or the wrong way" approach and I suspect that got in the way of his career more than once. This could be one of those times?
 
Re: Bill Lawrence (Wilde) L500's

he had a "it's my way or the wrong way" approach and I suspect that got in the way of his career more than once.
Click to expand...

I don't know... Bill worked with almost every guitar company at one time or another designing pickups and circuits. Maybe he didn't think Dimebag would add that much to his substantial legend? And maybe - it wasn't all about money with Bill. He had standards and stuck to them. Got to respect that.
 
Re: Bill Lawrence (Wilde) L500's

Dave Locher said:
Could be, but the "he didn't like the way they sounded so he stopped making them" also sounds right.
I never met or spoke to the man and those who did all agree he was a lovely person, but when you read his writings and interviews it is clear he had a "it's my way or the wrong way" approach and I suspect that got in the way of his career more than once. This could be one of those times?
Click to expand...

In the early 2000's I was upset that he discontinued the L-465 model. He stated that one could get the same tone out of the L-450s (which became the L-600s) with some adjustments to the circuit. I was curious and called Wilde to speak to him. He had an engineer's knowledge of metallurgy and electromagnetism. We ended up speaking about that, then about science, medicine, and philosophy for about 2 hours, including the social changes in Germany that led up to WWII. It was my 39th birthday, and I considered it a gift and was grateful for the chance to speak with a someone so knowledgable, not to mention a legend. Amazing guy. The fact that he would speak with me about such things for such a long period of time suggested to me that he was interested in his engineering but not so much in making a lot of money.

From his website and my converations with Bill and Becky, he was very set in his beliefs about making the clearest pickups possible, then coloring the tone with amps, pedals, and even added resistors and capacitors to the guitar's circuit. I can totally see that he would refuse to do something outside his philosophy.
 
Re: Bill Lawrence (Wilde) L500's

I always got the sense that Bill was one of those pure tech geeks with no head for business... hence the not one but TWO companies blatantly taking advantage of his work, and in the second case, even his name, all with apparently better results than his own shop
 
Re: Bill Lawrence (Wilde) L500's

They were/are a small family run business with not much overhead so their prices were always low and they weren't all about the money... I think it took them 15yrs or better to raise their prices to a somewhat normal price. They were $54/pickup plus shipping... I forget that they are now but it's still lower than anywhere else.
 
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