Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

[Adieu]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

Does void free single slab top of the line pine help any? If there are no knots in the wood being used, would that help or hinder the cabinet resonance? Does cabinet resonance really matter? How much power does it take to make a cabinet resonate? Will 5W do this?

What does resonate actually mean in a speaker cabinet?

When you can feel it vibrate when you sit on it....although you probably shouldnt do that with a pine cab

 

[Jacew]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

There are many species of pine around, which grow differently. What you describe as tree farm is pinus radiata. Fast growing pine that's entirely different from pines Fender used in old days.

Pine sold in europe is mostly pinus sylvestris that takes 50-100 years depending on the growth place until it's harvested for timber.

Now the speed of growth definitely makes difference and is simply dependent of soil and how the forest is taken care of. All sorts of wood is available. The big difference is also the tree species used.

Btw: I am professional in forestry...

 

[67Mopar]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

There are many species of pine around, which grow differently. What you describe as tree farm is pinus radiata. Fast growing pine that's entirely different from pines Fender used in old days.

Pine sold in europe is mostly pinus sylvestris that takes 50-100 years depending on the growth place until it's harvested for timber.

Now the speed of growth definitely makes difference and is simply dependent of soil and how the forest is taken care of. All sorts of wood is available. The big difference is also the tree species used.

Btw: I am professional in forestry...

Interesting... Paul Cornford more than likely sourced the pine domestically. My Cornford cabinet sounds great, but I cannot not push it like my birch Marshall cabinet using high-gain. I don't find that pine works well for that sound. Coupled with a VOX AC30 is a completely different story! I once installed a set of Alnico drivers into the Cornford 2x12, and I have yet to hear anything as glorious. I recently re-installed 1 x Alnico Cream and 1 x Alnico Blue into the 2x12.

As a closed cabinet, the coloration was excessive, to say the least. I ended-up converting it myself to a semi-open cabinet design, plus added some Acust-X to the interior. If at any point I decide that I don't like the altered sound, I can just peel the Acoust-X out of it. I wasn't trying to stop the resonating effect, just lessening it. I also have the cutout section to convert it back to a closed back cabinet. Compared to the 4x12, the OS 2x12 speaker to wood ratio is obviously higher, so the effect is more extreme.

 

[67Mopar]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

Does void free single slab top of the line pine help any? If there are no knots in the wood being used, would that help or hinder the cabinet resonance? Does cabinet resonance really matter? How much power does it take to make a cabinet resonate? Will 5W do this?

What does resonate actually mean in a speaker cabinet?

Cabinet resonance adds it own coloration to the sound. This is something you do not want when listening to a mastered recording and/or live PA. Whether or not you want coloration from the source (i.e. guitar amplifier speaker cabinet) is up to you. You will need to experiment with that yourself, of course. If you have access to a Kemper, upload my Cornford RK100 presets... I produced those profiles using a Cornford RK 4x12 pine cabinet loaded with UK made Celestion Vintage 30's.

 

[Adieu]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

Yeah, part of the "problem" is when traditional PA/audiophile cabinet build logic is used.

For an electric guitar, though, the speaker and cabinet can also be a source of desirable coloration

 

[Securb]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

One of my best sounding cabs is my MDF Marshall MX212. Granted it is upgraded with about $300 worth of speakers with hemp cones. Still, anyone who plays that cab loves it.

Baltic birch was readily available in England; pine was abundant in the US. Marshall, Fender, and others used the resources that were cost effective. The type of wood and the resonance was not even considered when the classic amps were made. We put more stock into this subject than the original designers of the amps. Closed back vs. open back makes a huge difference. I do not think anyone can close their eyes and tell the difference between a birch, pine or MDF cab of the same design and speakers.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

I have an MX212 as well. Sounds just spiffy


Not saying better speakers wouldn't be better, though.

 

[Securb]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

I have an MX212 as well. Sounds just spiffy


Not saying better speakers wouldn't be better, though.

I was fine with the original speakers they sounded awesome. The only reason I changed them is I am using that cab with the JC-120. I needed more wattage handling per side. I put in the OEM Marshall stereo jack in the back and put in Eminence Wheelhouse 150's. The cab sounds fantastic with both the Roland and the Marshall.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

One of my best sounding cabs is my MDF Marshall MX212. Granted it is upgraded with about $300 worth of speakers with hemp cones. Still, anyone who plays that cab loves it.

Baltic birch was readily available in England; pine was abundant in the US. Marshall, Fender, and others used the resources that were cost effective. The type of wood and the resonance was not even considered when the classic amps were made. We put more stock into this subject than the original designers of the amps. Closed back vs. open back makes a huge difference. I do not think anyone can close their eyes and tell the difference between a birch, pine or MDF cab of the same design and speakers.

That would be interesting try out. I'd say there's significant difference between plywood, pine and MDF. They have wildly different response to sound.

Now whether the plywood is made of birch or spruce. That I think is entirely pointless.

 

[Securb]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

Now whether the plywood is made of birch or spruce. That I think is entirely pointless.

My thinking also. As log as the wood is not to the point of failure I do not think it would make a difference. Meaning if the wood on the baffle was so thin there was play in the baffle as the speakers pumped I know there would be a noticable and probally bad affect. If the wood on the baffle were so rigid there was no movement of the baffle you are only going to hear the speaker. Some woods are stronger and more ridgid than others but as long as the cab is built correctly I see no difference. The slight vibrations of the speaker going through the wood of the cabinet are not going to have anymore effect on the tone than the grill cloth you choose.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

Grill cloth? Now we’re getting somewhere...

 

[Jacew]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

My thinking also. As log as the wood is not to the point of failure I do not think it would make a difference. Meaning if the wood on the baffle was so thin there was play in the baffle as the speakers pumped I know there would be a noticable and probally bad affect. If the wood on the baffle were so rigid there was no movement of the baffle you are only going to hear the speaker. Some woods are stronger and more ridgid than others but as long as the cab is built correctly I see no difference. The slight vibrations of the speaker going through the wood of the cabinet are not going to have anymore effect on the tone than the grill cloth you choose.

I don't think vibration of the wood makes that much difference in most cases. What makes would be the returning wave inside the cab and how different materials reflect and absorb different frequencies of it.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

i think i can hear the difference between a solid pine cab and ply cab. i had a ply bassman box, got a solid pine box to replace it and the pine was less focused but sounded better to my ears. the baffle was floating on the pine box compared to fixed on the ply so im sure that made a difference too.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

I'm a bit late to the party, but "my guy" uses Sitka Spruce on account of its strength and low weight. I have one of his 2×12 cabs with two Weber Bloodhounds and it sounds killer. I guess it's a bit like pickups and guitars in a way, there is no good or bad wood, there are only pickups that do or don't work well with the particular wood. It's the same with cabs and speakers.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

i think i can hear the difference between a solid pine cab and ply cab. i had a ply bassman box, got a solid pine box to replace it and the pine was less focused but sounded better to my ears. the baffle was floating on the pine box compared to fixed on the ply so im sure that made a difference too.

I think the test would be picking the wood that different cabinets are made of out of a lineup (so to speak). If you took 6 cabinets all of the same exact dimension and construction methods, but with different type woods or wood products (mdf, particle board) and with the same speakers and same amp driving them, etc. etc. I'm guessing that most players could hear differences between the cabinets, even if the differences between some of the cabinets may be pretty subtle. I'm not so sure that players could pick which wood each of the cabinets were made from. And, one guys "good" would be another guys "not as good".

 

[jeremy]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

that would be a cool test. years ago when we did "amp camp" we did a test between a pine box and maple box, both with a g12-65 and everyone liked the pine better.

 

[Securb]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

I think the test would be picking the wood that different cabinets are made of out of a lineup (so to speak). If you took 6 cabinets all of the same exact dimension and construction methods, but with different type woods or wood products (mdf, particle board) and with the same speakers and same amp driving them, etc. etc. I'm guessing that most players could hear differences between the cabinets, even if the differences between some of the cabinets may be pretty subtle. I'm not so sure that players could pick which wood each of the cabinets were made from. And, one guys "good" would be another guys "not as good".

I would love to do that or even see it. I do not by into the wood theory, but hey it is not like I have never been wrong in my life. Still, in my case with all of the gain, I am using, and subtle nuances pine or birch are adding are long gone. Add to that by the time the audience hears it; it is going through multiple Peavey or JBL 15s. It might make a difference in your living room but it ain't gonna stop a rock n roll show.

 

[ComradeKrank]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

I think speaker variation and other factors play a significantly larger role when you get down to this level of tone. A test would require all of the speakers and dimensions of the box would need to be identical and you’d need a DI box to make sure you were running the same performance through the cabs too to remove player variations as well. Lastly, each cab would need to be placed in the exact same spot in the room to control for reflection variations on the mic that would need placed in an identical spot. If you wanted to blind the test for listeners you’d have to produce several samples and run them in random order against each other but that wouldn’t matter if someone just wanted to pick the sound they like best. I’d expect the findings to be minimal and as another poster said, probably compensatable by building the cab to the material being used and even then the results would only be generalizable to the all of the items used in that specific test and not other cabinets with different wiring and speakers.

The only effects as with a guitars pickup relating to tone wood, are probably how material affects vibration in the system and therefore how it relates to the speaker or pickup communicates or receives information in the very physical sense. IE If tone wood enables the string to vibrate with greater sustain or excursion that may affect what’s being communicated to the pickup. If the wood affects the vibration of a speaker it’s probably going to have an effect on how the speaker projects sound. The real question is if it matters enough at all to worry about over the multitude of other variables in the chain like tolerances in electronic components, cables, picks, pedals, or even the quality of the electricity going into the amp. I doubt it.

 

[Securb]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

The real question is if it matters enough at all to worry about over the multitude of other variables in the chain like tolerances in electronic components, cables, picks, pedals, or even the quality of the electrify going into the amp. I doubt it.

This +1.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

Of course you do need to take into account that whatever effect cab has, affects directly to the sound. There's nothing to filter the effect of it.

If you knock a box, all things being the same, plywood and solid wood will have very noticeable difference. There's really no way that it's not going to affect the tone of the speaker.