Blackouts.... EMTY vs Loomis or EMG Het Set

[80's_Thrash_Metal]

Can someone who has played both give me some insight as to how they compare tonally?
definition-clarity?
gain and noise?

And or any comparison to the emg het set?

I have pretty extensive use and love for the EMTY pickups... My absolute favorite pickup. But I have zero experience with the other two.

Thanks so much.


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[Inflames626]

Of the ones listed I have experience with the EMTYs, AHB1 Blackouts, and standard EMGs (60/81/85).

If you already have EMGs, go to 24 volts first with the 24 Volt Mod. They become totally different pickups then. 18 volts makes them fatter, 24 makes them react much more quickly to transients and sensitive to dynamics.

In the event you don't like the tone, you can still use the Mod with Seymour Duncan active pickups safely according to 24 Volt Mod.

AHB1s are to EMTYs like how an EMG 85 might be to an 81. The low end in AHB1s is a little rounder and warmer, but the highs aren't as squashed as those of an 85.

I prefer the AHB1 for lower tunings than my EMG 81s (Db and below).

I prefer the EMTYs to the AHB1s. The thing is the AHB1s have a little more body for chugging. The EMTYs were designed for lower tunings, I think, so the lows are rolled off a bit and the highs shifted upward to increase clarity.

I use EMTYs on my C standard guitars but use the AHB1 on my Db and B guitars for a bit more body and low end chug.

It's a very slight difference between the EMTY and AHB1s, but noticeable.

The AHB1 is worth trying out. They will probably be easier to find than the EMTYs and a bit cheaper.

Overall, I would say an AHB1 set kind of sounds Alnico 5 ish, while the EMTYs sound more ceramic. Not sure what they use, though.

Hope this helps.

 

[Inflames626]

Also, I don't like the trend toward a PAF/passive sound in actives that became popular around 2010 or so. So I haven't tried the Hets or more "organic" sounding actives.

The 81 is a classic sound that is improved in every way by going to 24 Volts. The mod is around $35 or so--much less than a new pickup--and can be removed easily. It puts 81s back in the game compared to modern pickups without making the 81 sound flabby or too round like an 85 does.

So if you like the PAF style actives, you may not like the 81 in 24 volts. But I like it because it makes the 81 thicker without changing its character.

If I wanted a more "organic" sounding active I'd just go to a passive and try a Custom or Custom 5.

As far as Blackouts (AHB1), they sound thicker than 81s but retain highs and clarity. The low end is more present than with an 81, but remains tight. This is why I tend to use AHB1s for lower tunings when I want a thicker tone than what an 81 will give me but don't want to go the "organic/PAF" active sounding route.

 

[80's_Thrash_Metal]

I have used the ahb-1 pups before, did not care for them, too round and loose with the bottom end for my tastes.

I'm really curious about the Loomis or Het Set and if they are a good enough alternative to try out or if I should just get another set of EMTY pickups. Will be going into my Gibson Explorer.

I have used 81s, 85s, and a few other EMGs in the past, they were just ok for the most part.
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[Inflames626]

I have used the ahb-1 pups before, did not care for them, too round and loose with the bottom end for my tastes.

I'm really curious about the Loomis or Het Set and if they are a good enough alternative to try out or if I should just get another set of EMTY pickups. Will be going into my Gibson Explorer.

I have used 81s, 85s, and a few other EMGs in the past, they were just ok for the most part.
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Seriously, try the Mod. If they don't work with EMGs you can use them with the SD stuff and see how they sound. I haven't tried them with SD stuff yet but plan to.

I am curious as to how the Loomis pickups sound compared to the AHB2s, both of which have really boosted mids.

 

[Inflames626]

I tend to stay away from SD pickups with boosted mids per the tone charts they use. I think what I consider mids they consider highs. I tend to prefer the sound of pickups that have what they show as having scooped mids relative to the rest of the EQ chart. Their mids to me are low mids--around the 300-1600 hz area--and that's usually the first thing I cut to make room for bass.

 

[Inflames626]

Also, if you have an unused tone knob, try an EMG EXG midrange control. Turning it up scoops out the lower mids and really improves the chugging of the 81 in my experience.

 

[Inflames626]

Looks like the Loomis has less low end and more highs, while the AHB2 has more lows and less highs. Looks the AHB2 is a darker sounding pickup overall.

Plus the Loomis just comes in 7 only and the AHB2 in 6 only.

 

[80's_Thrash_Metal]

The guitar has BB3's atm. They sound great..... Until I plug my explorer with EMTY Blackouts in.... Then they sound weak comparatively.

 

[Inflames626]

Yeah I would consider any BurstBucker to be more on the vintage sounding side of things. I've never used them though. I generally don't go below a 498t in output with Gibson for bridge pickups.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I think the trend to make EMG's that sound more PAF-like was ridiculous too.

However! I will say that it's only nominal because that's kinda like where the whole romantization of vintage and mid output offerings started (for Metal), I think.

The EMG 57 sounds NOTHING like a PAF. It just soundsl ike a slightly different take on the EMG classic recipee. It's fatter than the 81 in the low mids, but also has some more added sparkle up top. It is not more dynamic. If anything, it's the opposite. The preamp is not different, and the wind/maget is hotter, so it clips more internally. Sometimes people just hear what they want to hear. But you just gotta look at a DI recorded with one vs. the 81, you don't have to look hard to see it's more compressed. However, because it has exposed poles, it does do something nice to the attack which makes it feel a bit more responsive. Or maybe not more responsive, but responsive in a different/less smooth/even way than the 81.

I personally like to think of the EMG 57 more of an 85 that has been de-mudded and made less smooth and a lot clearer. Like the best from an 81 and 85 smashed together, and then +1'd with some high-end sparkle thrown on top (keep in mind, this is comparing all EMG's, but comparing it to passives, it's pretty much the same EMG EQ curve with the hipass/lopass effect).

The EMG Het is closer to the 81 in terms of EQ, just with a touch more low mid content, some more aggresion to the attack, and A LOT more output. It's pretty much Blackout levels of output at that point, just more compressed because it runs on that same old EMG preamp. It's a cool pickup. Think of the Het as the middle ground in EQ between the 81 and the 57. But when it comes to output, it goes 81, 57, Het from lowest to highest. Well, "output" is the wrong word, because they all technically have the exact same output when ran at 9V. It's just the Het is hotter, then the 57, and last the 81 before the signal hits the preamp.

I will say, though. Back when I had the AHB-1, I saw in the DI's that the AHB-1 at 9V had the exact same headroom than the Hets at 18V. So you just gotta compensate running them at a higher voltage to reach Blackout levels of dynamics. The voicing will still be different, though.

I like all of the classic EMG's, personally, that I've tried. I have always found an application for all of them.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

There was a video from Fluff back in the day where he compared the EMTYs to the Hets, and the Hets were tighter, faster, and more focused (but also thinner/narrower). But that's the whole thing to the EMG voicing. It is like that compared to the Duncan voicing for their actives. Not that one is worse than the others, but EMG's are measurably tighter than pretty much anything else other than maybe Fluences. Not that that's better or worse. It's just the way it is, IME.

 

[Inflames626]

I see actives vs. passives like this:

If you want a very consistent sound and only that sound, go active. That said, some actives will be very flat and some will be very colored. I tend to use actives in my master volume only guitars because most actives are not capable of diverse wiring options like split/parallel/out of phase (unless you purchase additional tone controls).

If you want a specific sound with the possibility of additional tones due to diverse wiring options, go passive. I think I've mentioned before that the Custom/Custom 5 paired with Triple Shots are some of the most flexible pickups I've ever tried.

That said, there are overlaps.

An EMG 60A in 24 volts in the neck will sound a lot like a Duncan Alnico II Pro in the neck.

In terms of installations, I prefer my actives because they are simpler. But even though they are a pain to install my passives are worth it in the end due to their increased versatility.

Further, actives are easier to experiment with because they are more modular. Installing my passives with Triple Shots can take an hour or two. Once they are in there, I never remove them.

If I were gigging live I'd go with my actives because they are simpler and produce a more straight ahead tone, but in studio my passives give me more tonal options, especially when I pair them with Triple Shots, a tone knob, phase switch, and killswitch.

 

[Inflames626]

Also, an EMG 81 is more versatile than people give them credit for.

Whether it was Slayer with pushed mids through boosted Marshalls or Metallica with scooped mids through Dual Recs and Mark IIC+s, both of those sounds were made with EMG 81s back in the day. Even though EMG 81s have boosted mids, they can sound great scooped if you notch them out in the right place. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find where the EXG midrange control scoops the frequency but it sounds great. I've linked to it below:

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.emgpickups.com/pub/media/Mageants/e/x/exg_0230-0164rb.pdf

It was only around 2010 or so after 20 years of EMG 81 dominance when tastes began to change and people started to want a fatter, high output passive sound.

 

[80's_Thrash_Metal]

There was a video from Fluff back in the day where he compared the EMTYs to the Hets, and the Hets were tighter, faster, and more focused (but also thinner/narrower). But that's the whole thing to the EMG voicing. It is like that compared to the Duncan voicing for their actives. Not that one is worse than the others, but EMG's are measurably tighter than pretty much anything else other than maybe Fluences. Not that that's better or worse. It's just the way it is, IME.

I watched that video last week, and it's actually what led me here to ask the question.
I love the EMTY's very much.
Seems like nobody can really give me insight into the Loomis or the het set. You've vids are kind of hit and miss with sound quality....

at $260 a set for these pickups I don't want to be wrong very much ha ha.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I watched that video last week, and it's actually what led me here to ask the question.
I love the EMTY's very much.
Seems like nobody can really give me insight into the Loomis or the het set. You've vids are kind of hit and miss with sound quality....

at $260 a set for these pickups I don't want to be wrong very much ha ha.

I liked the Hets very much when I had them, but they did change the EMG recipee like 5 years ago, so I don't know how they are nowadays.

I recommend them if you haven't. That's if you like EMG's, though. They have the very same old EMG recipee. Sometimes, like I said, people hear what they want to hear. But to me, they just sound like an new-ish interesting take on the same old EMG recipee.

I have not tried the Loomis.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I see actives vs. passives like this:

Honestly, it's hard to lump passives vs. actives for me.

Because the EMG 81 sounds nothing like the Fluence Classic which sounds nothing like the AHB-1B.

Same as with passives. The APH-1 sounds nothing like the Black Winter either.

I will say, though, the Classic EMG line, especially the plain old 81 and the Fluence Modern Ceramic do have a lot in common. I will say the 81 and the Fluence Modern Ceramic are closer to each other than the 81 and the AHB-1B, which is Duncan's take on the 81.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

I only have experience with the AHB-2b & the AHB-1n.

The AHB 2 is hands down my favourite active, cuz rich sounding wet liquid lead tones & 80's power metal rhthym tones all day long. The bottom is def rounder than an EMG 81 & it's not super-tight (or over loose). The term "organic" may be overused but it applies here...it has more of a passive feel for sure than most other actives i've tried.

Has a ton of bass but it's even'd out with the rich/prominent upper mids & sweet top. (Harmonics through the roof) . It's definitely pretty prominant in the mids & always stays pretty clear/articulate as well. The jumpered "boost" is only good for super saturating your leads & incredible for tapping :bigthumb:

There's kind of a vintage sounding, Micheal chenker-ish element to the lead tones a well..with the awesome overtones..

Chugs are ballsy ...as in you can feel them thump you in the chest with thick low mids as well as upper mid bite & crunchiness rather than the so-called "tight" (ie, wimpy/gelded/heavily filtered) chugs you hear in shitty modern metal/metalcore recordings... the highs are'nt shrill/harsh/ice-picky at all, but slightly round & very musical (esp. for solo's)

The only downside, if you can call it that, is the extreme output. It all but drowns out the regular Blackout neck pup and there is a volume mismatch no matter how you level the pups. Also , it's pretty height sensitive as well

I prefer to have it down really low just a couple of millimeters above the pup ring I heard that an an AHB-1b in the neck will improve things volume-matching-wise ..but I have'nt tried it myself.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

If you don't get the height adjusted right (sweet spot) it can sound pretty beamy..but once in the sweet spot it just sounds huge/meaty..

 

[Inflames626]

I only have experience with the AHB-2b & the AHB-1n.

The AHB 2 is hands down my favourite active, cuz rich sounding wet liquid lead tones & 80's power metal rhthym tones all day long. The bottom is def rounder than an EMG 81 & it's not super-tight (or over loose). The term "organic" may be overused but it applies here...it has more of a passive feel for sure than most other actives i've tried.

Has a ton of bass but it's even'd out with the rich/prominent upper mids & sweet top. (Harmonics through the roof) . It's definitely pretty prominant in the mids & always stays pretty clear/articulate as well. The jumpered "boost" is only good for super saturating your leads & incredible for tapping :bigthumb:

There's kind of a vintage sounding, Micheal chenker-ish element to the lead tones a well..with the awesome overtones..

Chugs are ballsy ...as in you can feel them thump you in the chest with thick low mids as well as upper mid bite & crunchiness rather than the so-called "tight" (ie, wimpy/gelded/heavily filtered) chugs you hear in ****ty modern metal/metalcore recordings... the highs are'nt shrill/harsh/ice-picky at all, but slightly round & very musical (esp. for solo's)

The only downside, if you can call it that, is the extreme output. It all but drowns out the regular Blackout neck pup and there is a volume mismatch no matter how you level the pups. Also , it's pretty height sensitive as well

I prefer to have it down really low just a couple of millimeters above the pup ring I heard that an an AHB-1b in the neck will improve things volume-matching-wise ..but I have'nt tried it myself.

What about an AHB2 in the neck non-jumped and a jumpered one in the bridge?