Body shapes and tone

[Agileguy_101]

Say you have two guitar bodies (for my purposes, a Telecaster and a Jazzmaster) made from the same wood, sporting the same hardware, pickups, and the same neck (switched between the two). Realistically, in the collective opinion of the SDUGF, how much do you think body shape affects tone?

I'm planning on building a Tele on a Jazzmaster body, and I want to try to account for any tone differences due to the shape of the body beforehand. It'll basically look like this, except on a Jazzmaster body, without binding, and maybe an ebony fretboard:

 

[DarkMatter]

Re: Body shapes and tone

All other factors equal, it will make no difference that could be measured or heard.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Body shapes and tone

Because those two body shapes are so similar, and because they are similar in total body area, the tonal differences will be based on the actual piece/pieces of wood used (material, density, and number of pieces used in construction).

You will only notice a measurable change of tone by changing the wood material (mahogany, maple, alder, ash, etc) or by radically changing the shape (Explorer, et al), or scale length (Gibson, baritone, or 25"), or the bridge and/or nut material.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Body shapes and tone

I think any differences between the two could be chalked up to the usual variables, not to body shape.

Teles with the Jazz/Jag body are really cool! Good luck with the build.

 

[Jeremiah]

Re: Body shapes and tone

I'd guess the shape is only likely to make a noticeable difference if you add or remove a lot of wood in the region of either the neck/body join or the bridge.

But that's just a guess.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Body shapes and tone

I think that's one of those things that only us nerdy guitar players would even venture to think about, much less actually believe will drastically impact the sound of the guitar :laugh2:.

If they're made from the same type wood, it's unlikely you'll hear any difference once you're playing through a cranked amp, next to a heavy handed drummer, on a poorly constructed stage in the back corner of a bar that smells like rotten pastrami.

 

[AniML]

Re: Body shapes and tone

I think the shape of the body affects tone to a small degree.

I think to an extent the shape of a body looks like it will sound. Assuming a solid body and accounting for the basic characteristics of the chosen tonewood and everything else being equal, I think...

a thicker body will sound thicker / beefier than a thinner body (ex LP vs Jr / Melody Maker vs SG)
a rounded body will sound rounder / fuller than a pointy body (ex LP vs Explorer / V)
conversely, a pointier body will sound snappier / tighter than a rounded body (ex above or Strat vs Tele)

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: Body shapes and tone

That's what I thought, I just wanted to make sure. I'll probably be starting this project around the time I get my tax return next year.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Body shapes and tone

Well, a Strat with a Tele bridge will not sound like a Tele, nor will a Tele with a Strat-style bridge sound like a Strat. Each one will have its own distinct, signature tone.

This would indicate that the amount of wood removed from the center of a Strat's body for the pickup routes has more of an effect on the tone than the extra bit of wood where the top bout is by the neck.

Assuming a Jazzmaster is routed as minimally as a Tele, and not as drastically as a typical 3-single Strat, the guitar should share tonal elements of both, perhaps with a bit of extra "something" due to the extra wood at the rear treble edge.


I mean, if they all sounded alike, why bother making different shapes? Make one and streamline the production process to produce billions of them a day.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Body shapes and tone

Well, a Strat with a Tele bridge will not sound like a Tele, nor will a Tele with a Strat-style bridge sound like a Strat. Each one will have its own distinct, signature tone.

This would indicate that the amount of wood removed from the center of a Strat's body for the pickup routes has more of an effect on the tone than the extra bit of wood where the top bout is by the neck.

I think a strat body with a tele bridge plate & pickups will sound very much like a tele, because of the bridge design and pickups in use. That's very different than having a trem and three pickups of a different flavor hanging from a plastic pickguard.

Assuming a Jazzmaster is routed as minimally as a Tele, and not as drastically as a typical 3-single Strat, the guitar should share tonal elements of both, perhaps with a bit of extra "something" due to the extra wood at the rear treble edge.

Again, if you have the telecaster bridge plate, tele bridge pickup, and brass saddles you can very easily make a JM body sound like a tele.

I mean, if they all sounded alike, why bother making different shapes? Make one and streamline the production process to produce billions of them a day.

Because people prefer different body shapes. I love strats and teles but think Vs look ridiculous and would never buy one. Some people like their Vs pointy like a Rhoads but hate rounded Vs like a Gibson. It's about cosmetics and playing comfort.

 

[Jeremiah]

Re: Body shapes and tone

Also remember, a blue guitar will give the most bluesy sound, you need a black guitar to get the best results for black metal, and if you want really clean tones, you have to polish your guitar before you play.

 

[G0lden]

Re: Body shapes and tone

Well, a Strat with a Tele bridge will not sound like a Tele, nor will a Tele with a Strat-style bridge sound like a Strat. Each one will have its own distinct, signature tone.

This would indicate that the amount of wood removed from the center of a Strat's body for the pickup routes has more of an effect on the tone than the extra bit of wood where the top bout is by the neck.

Assuming a Jazzmaster is routed as minimally as a Tele, and not as drastically as a typical 3-single Strat, the guitar should share tonal elements of both, perhaps with a bit of extra "something" due to the extra wood at the rear treble edge.


I mean, if they all sounded alike, why bother making different shapes? Make one and streamline the production process to produce billions of them a day.

I don't agree with this simply because my American Standard Tele came with routing very similar to a Strat. I could make it an SSH if I wanted.

 

[atreidesheir]

Re: Body shapes and tone

I thought Explorers sound more angled. Concave to be precise.

 

[jumble jumble]

Re: Body shapes and tone

It's just the mass, surely.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Body shapes and tone

I think a strat body with a tele bridge plate & pickups will sound very much like a tele, because of the bridge design and pickups in use. That's very different than having a trem and three pickups of a different flavor hanging from a plastic pickguard.

But surely you have to concede that a Tele being routed only for the neck and bridge pickups (hum-single or single-hum or single-single or even hum-hum) and the wiring channels will have an effect on the sound vs a Strat that has a 3-single-and-the control-cavity-cutout (not the swimming pool, that's too obvious), even if they both had the same bridge?

Again, if you have the telecaster bridge plate, tele bridge pickup, and brass saddles you can very easily make a JM body sound like a tele.

I dunno. I'd predict a bit more top-end due to the elongated rear end, as well as the shortened horn area by the neck.

Because people prefer different body shapes. I love strats and teles but think Vs look ridiculous and would never buy one. Some people like their Vs pointy like a Rhoads but hate rounded Vs like a Gibson. It's about cosmetics and playing comfort.

While my all-mahogany KV2T is Gibson-scale, it sounds nothing like my Les Paul Standard. It has the same low-mid attack as my 80s maple-neck/alder-bodied and recent faded-series all-mahogany bodied Gibson Vs. A Jackson Kelly also has very similar tonal qualities to a Gibson Explorer, even though the scale is different (and bridge, on the Floyded Kelly).
However, a Jackson Warrior sounds closer to a V than the Kelly, because of the large cutout in the rear, and the longer upper rear horn.

I'm sure Albert King's V sounded a lot different than Buddy Guy's Strat, or Muddy's Red Tele.

There was a Guitar Player article I read many years ago where the author spoke of this, citing his custom-made fork-shaped guitar for his "Mack The Fork" band. He went on to elaborate how and why body shape affects amplified tone. My own experiments and comparisons over the years have confirmed this.

Even with the same bridge, the body shape does contribute significantly to the amplified tone.
After all, it did take more than the Gibson bridge and tailpiece to make Jeff Beck's Tele sound closer to his LP.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Body shapes and tone

But surely you have to concede that a Tele being routed only for the neck and bridge pickups (hum-single or single-hum or single-single or even hum-hum) and the wiring channels will have an effect on the sound vs a Strat that has a 3-single-and-the control-cavity-cutout (not the swimming pool, that's too obvious), even if they both had the same bridge?

Probably not to any degree I'd be able to hear in a live band context, no.

I don't disagree that the volume of wood and how it interacts with the bridge and pickups have an impact, I just don't feel that what silhouette shape said wood is in really matters that much. There are many, many differences between Albert's V and Muddy's tele beyond the body shape.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Body shapes and tone

Because those two body shapes are so similar, and because they are similar in total body area, the tonal differences will be based on the actual piece/pieces of wood used (material, density, and number of pieces used in construction).

You will only notice a measurable change of tone by changing the wood material (mahogany, maple, alder, ash, etc) or by radically changing the shape (Explorer, et al), or scale length (Gibson, baritone, or 25"), or the bridge and/or nut material.

+1. There's much more variety in Gibson designs than Fenders. Going from an LP, SG, 335, 330, Flying V, Firebird, 175, etc will make noticeable changes in EQ, overtones, and sustain.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Body shapes and tone

Probably not to any degree I'd be able to hear in a live band context, no.

I don't disagree that the volume of wood and how it interacts with the bridge and pickups have an impact, I just don't feel that what silhouette shape said wood is in really matters that much. There are many, many differences between Albert's V and Muddy's tele beyond the body shape.

Well, in a live band context, one could play a 2x4 with EMGs nailed to it for that matter.

And yes, I'm well aware of the various factors that determine the final sound aside from pickups and wood and scale. I'm saying that a V and a Les Paul (same wood and scale) do not sound alike, thus negating the notion that the reason for different body shapes has anything to do with cosmetics, but instead it is about how a given shape affects tone.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Body shapes and tone

And yes, I'm well aware of the various factors that determine the final sound aside from pickups and wood and scale. I'm saying that a V and a Les Paul (same wood and scale) do not sound alike, thus negating the notion that the reason for different body shapes has anything to do with cosmetics, but instead it is about how a given shape affects tone.

There are more differences though than just shape between your Les Paul and the KV2. 1 is set neck 1 is neck through. 1 has a maple cap with a mahogany neck. The other has no cap but a maple neck. Also does the KV2 have a Ebony board vs a rosewood on the LP? I'm willing to bet they dont share the same mass anyways. Sorry but this is not a great example of 2 guitars that are the same minus shape they still have many differences.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Body shapes and tone

the only real differences ive heard are in single vs double cutaways. the bottom end seems different.