Bogner amp question - Snorkler 50 vs. ?

[Binnerscot]

Since Bogner amps are all birds of a feather in tone, which I love, I have been curious if anyone has any insight into how much the Helios Eclipse, Uber, or an XTC may overlap tone wise with the Snorkler 50. I haven't found any direct comparisons or even posts across the web.

In other words, does the Helios Eclipse, Uber, or XTC do what the Snorkler 50 does, or is the Snorkler 50 unique (your sales rep will say so lol)?

Dropping ~$3000 to find out seems a bit excessive - don't make me do it.....

If anyone has done some time on the Snorkler, please chime in.

 

[Cynical]

I haven't played a Snorkler, only seen the schematics, so take this with a grain of salt, but the circuit isn't quite like the others; XTC Red should be closest, but the Snorkler has no cold clipper, so it's going to be less smooth and a bit grindier.

 

[Cynical]

Since Bogner amps are all birds of a feather in tone, which I love, I have been curious if anyone has any insight into how much the Helios Eclipse, Uber, or an XTC may overlap tone wise with the Snorkler 50. I haven't found any direct comparisons or even posts across the web.

In other words, does the Helios Eclipse, Uber, or XTC do what the Snorkler 50 does, or is the Snorkler 50 unique (your sales rep will say so lol)?

Dropping ~$3000 to find out seems a bit excessive - don't make me do it.....

If anyone has done some time on the Snorkler, please chime in.

BTW, I just did a bit of research, and if you want to try it without paying Bogner prices, the Splawn Quickrod is nearly component-for-component identical, and can be had for <$2000 all day.

 

[Binnerscot]

I haven't played a Snorkler, only seen the schematics, so take this with a grain of salt, but the circuit isn't quite like the others; XTC Red should be closest, but the Snorkler has no cold clipper, so it's going to be less smooth and a bit grindier.

Appreciate the insight! I was suspecting it may overlap a good bit in sound with the Helios Eclipse as that's the most "modded" Marshall Bogner makes and the Snorkler was his first modded Marshall, though I've read the Snorkler preamp is quite different than most Marshall mods. I like the Snorkler's stripped down nature and from what I can hear across the internet medium is that it does have some unique grit in the mids, but that just gives one an approximation. After speakers, mics, interfaces, DAWs, streaming compression, etc. it gets much harder to pick out differences vs. actually playing the amp.

*Edit: I am very surprised the Helios Eclipse doesn't get more love, it's a spectacular amp. One of my favorites is Reinhold's sense of humor. The Eclipse was based on feedback of his Helios (Plexi-ish), and it was noted that players wanted a clean channel and legit switching. So the clean channel is a single knob and a bright switch and even incorporated like an afterthought - hilarious, and it actually sounds really good.

 

[Cynical]

Yeah, the Helios and the Snorkler are very different takes on the "modded Marshall" archetype, and aren't even really mods of the same base Marshall. The Eclipse in particular is a 2203 base with clipping diodes and some other bells and whistles; the Snorkler is a 1959 mod, not a 2203 mod, and lacks the 2203's cold clipper (basically the Snorkler [and also the Quick Rod] cascades the "normal" input into the "bright" input of a 1959, and then changes the cathode follower into another gain stage, leaving the amp with a plate-driven tone stack as a side effect because there's only so many 12ax7 slots available on a 1959 chassis).

Ironically, in some ways, the gain staging is more like an Uberschall than anything else Bogner makes (four gain stages with no cold clipper; the Snorkler and the Uberschall are the only Bogner amps designed that way in the pre-amp), but they're *very* different designs in loads of other ways.

 

[Binnerscot]

Yeah, the Helios and the Snorkler are very different takes on the "modded Marshall" archetype, and aren't even really mods of the same base Marshall. The Eclipse in particular is a 2203 base with clipping diodes and some other bells and whistles; the Snorkler is a 1959 mod, not a 2203 mod, and lacks the 2203's cold clipper (basically the Snorkler [and also the Quick Rod] cascades the "normal" input into the "bright" input of a 1959, and then changes the cathode follower into another gain stage, leaving the amp with a plate-driven tone stack as a side effect because there's only so many 12ax7 slots available on a 1959 chassis).

Ironically, in some ways, the gain staging is more like an Uberschall than anything else Bogner makes (four gain stages with no cold clipper; the Snorkler and the Uberschall are the only Bogner amps designed that way in the pre-amp), but they're *very* different designs in loads of other ways.

Thanks for the info! Looks like I should grab a Snorkler soon and try it out.

 

[Cynical]

Thanks for the info! Looks like I should grab a Snorkler soon and try it out.

I'd just get a Splawn Quick Rod. Same circuit, about half the price on the used market.

 

[Binnerscot]

I'd just get a Splawn Quick Rod. Same circuit, about half the price on the used market.

Appreciate the recommendation, but they aren't vastly different in price, used or new, and I suspect the Snorkler is a better fit for the unique grind and attack that I'm looking for.

 

[Cynical]

Where are you finding a Snorkler for $1500 USD?!?!

I'd be shocked if someone could differentiate a Snorkler and a Quick Rod on Gear 2 in a blind shootout, FWIW, based on the schematics. They're *that* similar.

 

[Binnerscot]

Where are you finding a Snorkler for $1500 USD?!?!

I'd be shocked if someone could differentiate a Snorkler and a Quick Rod on Gear 2 in a blind shootout, FWIW, based on the schematics. They're *that* similar.

They may be very, very similar - but it is even noted (on these forums no less) that the QR has a lot of Marshall in its tone where the Snorkler, and Bogner in general, tend to deviate a little further from those roots.

 

[Cynical]

Bogner Snorkler Mod Draft1 | PDF

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www.scribd.com

You can see for yourself -- it's standard Plexi values, with a switchable extra resistor on the treble circuit. Common mod from back in the day, loads of dudes were doing this to Plexis. Knowing Bogner, it probably has an audio taper treble knob (since his amps usually do)... an effect that you could replicate on the QR by just turning the treble lower.

 

[Binnerscot]

Bogner Snorkler Mod Draft1 | PDF

This document does not contain any meaningful information to summarize. It consists of random characters and symbols with no discernible words, sentences, or structure.

www.scribd.com

You can see for yourself -- it's standard Plexi values, with a switchable extra resistor on the treble circuit. Common mod from back in the day, loads of dudes were doing this to Plexis. Knowing Bogner, it probably has an audio taper treble knob (since his amps usually do)... an effect that you could replicate on the QR by just turning the treble lower.

Tech matters and is enlightening, likewise, we all know a Recto and SLO are identical preamps, but don't react or sound very similar. I should have a Snorkler in about two hours.... let's see....

 

[Cynical]

Tech matters and is enlightening, likewise, we all know a Recto and SLO are identical preamps, but don't react or sound very similar. I should have a Snorkler in about two hours.... let's see....

The Recto and SLO haven't had identical preamps since Rev C; the similarities there are overstated. And the Snorkler has never done weird stuff to the Marshall power section like the Recto did.

 

[Cynical]

Tech matters and is enlightening, likewise, we all know a Recto and SLO are identical preamps, but don't react or sound very similar. I should have a Snorkler in about two hours.... let's see....

So, it's been well over two hours -- what've you got?

 

[Binnerscot]

Bought one local in Milwaukee, met the guy and gave him X cash, a couple of nights ago and we had to wait for cash app hold (ya know, for our own protection ) He's dropping it off tomorrow, he had new years gigs too.