Bogner Shiva vs 78 JMP 2204: Vids and Clips

[NT02]

I recently purchased this fawn 2204 from GC for $1600 + tax, but returned it a few days later due to the cost. There are many out there for considerably less. But the tone of this amp in particular is kinda haunting me.

Here is a video I made, quickly comparing the tone:


And here are some recordings with a LP into each amp, 2x12 with V30s, SM57, Apogee Duet, Garageband. Clips are at the bottom of the page. JMP vs Shiva is heavy rhythm and lead. Shiva vs JMP is clean loop thru a Fender Dual Showman with lead. The tracks with 1 are JMP, 2 is Shiva:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/def...ent=music&songcount=42&offset=0&currentPage=2

What I've discovered is that I love the rhythm tone of this JMP. I prefer the clean on the Shiva and the lead tone on the Shiva is pretty sweet. But the Shiva is too fizzy and dark on the lead channel to get the chunk and kerrang of the Marshall. ACDC balls on the Marshall all day. Not so much on the Shiva.

So, now I'm considering picking up a 2204 kit from Ceriatone or Metro and building an amp, but am afraid that it won't capture the tone of this JMP. I've tried out many Marshalls, and some of those have been 2204s, and none have the tone of this one. I'm having a bad case of GAS.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Bogner Shiva vs 78 JMP 2204: Vids and Clips

I actually like the grunt of the Bogner on the lead channel. Sounds more full and thick.
At certain times though, I like the brighter more cutting sound of the Marshall.
Also, I am hearing something that sounds like you might have a speaker with a cone scraping noise.

 

[NT02]

Re: Bogner Shiva vs 78 JMP 2204: Vids and Clips

I actually like the grubnt of the Bogner on the lead channel. Sounds more full and thick.
At certain times though, I like the brighter more cutting sound of the Marshall.
Also, I am hearing something that sounds like you might have a speaker with a cone scraping noise.

LOL, is that on the video or recordings? The video was done with a camcorder that was definitely overloaded.

 

[Dirtbagg]

Re: Bogner Shiva vs 78 JMP 2204: Vids and Clips

So, now I'm considering picking up a 2204 kit from Ceriatone or Metro and building an amp, but am afraid that it won't capture the tone of this JMP. I've tried out many Marshalls, and some of those have been 2204s, and none have the tone of this one. I'm having a bad case of GAS.

I know the feeling, however Metro amps are not selling the kits anymore, George could not make ends meet. Ceritones are good, see Joe Popp
The thing with the Ceritone is the shipping costs. I am going to build one with plans from Ceritone and directions from Metro amp, i.e. thier Plexi. and buy the parts from either Mojo Tone, or Antiuque Electronic parts. and the transformers from Mercury. the transformers are the biggest price point.

with my calculations you can build a new 2204 with all new great parts for $1200 max. :naughty::eyecrazy:

PM me if you want any of my findings

 

[NT02]

Re: Bogner Shiva vs 78 JMP 2204: Vids and Clips

I know the feeling, however Metro amps are not selling the kits anymore, George could not make ends meet. Ceritones are good, see Joe Popp
The thing with the Ceritone is the shipping costs. I am going to build one with plans from Ceritone and directions from Metro amp, i.e. thier Plexi. and buy the parts from either Mojo Tone, or Antiuque Electronic parts. and the transformers from Mercury. the transformers are the biggest price point.

with my calculations you can build a new 2204 with all new great parts for $1200 max. :naughty::eyecrazy:

PM me if you want any of my findings

Yeah, I just found out that neither Ceriatone nor Metro are offering kits anymore. That sux.

$1200 for a new 2204 is over $500 less than the JMP that sounds so good. Which is awesome. My biggest concern is that a newly built amp won't sound like this JMP. I've played some early 80's JCM and late 70s JMP 2204s that did not have the gain, muscle and overall vibe of this JMP.

I'm definitely interested in the info you have. One of the things that I see often is that the JMPs that sound so much better than the JCMs have a lower plate voltage. I think the key to getting the best sounding 2204 build might be to get the power tranny that puts out the right voltage. Also, that JMP I played uses 6550s. I want to use the same tubes. I like the open sound, and I already have an EL34 amp in the Shiva. Maybe we can have a joint build project. lol

 

[NT02]

Re: Bogner Shiva vs 78 JMP 2204: Vids and Clips

Bumping this back up. So, my friend at GC got the matching fawn cab for the 2204 above from the original owner. He made me an offer that seems pretty good, in the neighborhood of $2000, and with a GC card, I could pay it off in a year.

I don't need that amp. The Shiva is plenty rocking, with an awesome clean channel, effects loop and boost on both channels.

Flip side, it's a late 70s Marshall half stack. How often does one get to crank those? And it's not like the price of these are going to go down.

What to do?

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Bogner Shiva vs 78 JMP 2204: Vids and Clips

The Shiva sounds pretty awesome to me. But if you've got an extra $2000 to burn and your gas is that strong, well then...

I think your Shiva should be able to do just about anything the Marshall can at least to the point where no one would be able to tell the difference.

 

[NT02]

Re: Bogner Shiva vs 78 JMP 2204: Vids and Clips

The Shiva sounds pretty awesome to me. But if you've got an extra $2000 to burn and your gas is that strong, well then...

I think your Shiva should be able to do just about anything the Marshall can at least to the point where no one would be able to tell the difference.

Thanks for the reply, Doc.

Yeah, you are right, the Shiva can cover what that Marshall does and much more.

You nailed it, just a bad case of gas. I would dig having that tone on hand, and to have something rare like an unmolested fawn late 70s Marshall. I'm getting over the gas for that amp, though.

The Marshall has faster response, openess and punch, compared to the softer low end, thicker mids and somewhat fizzy nature of the Shiva's drive channel. The Marshall has "that" sound and touch. These are the things that makes me want to grab the 2204.


After doing some research, it seems there are some amps out there that can do the Marshall thing better than the Shiva or the 2204. Splawn, Ceriatone, Friedman. I wouldn't mind keeping the Shiva for clean and then grabbing something that has those qualities that I like in the Marshall, but reaches higher gain with more punch that the Shiva.

It's a sickness.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Bogner Shiva vs 78 JMP 2204: Vids and Clips

Yeh, GAS is a sickness, and the doctor bills to cure it can be devastating.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Bogner Shiva vs 78 JMP 2204: Vids and Clips

Thanks for the reply, Doc.

Yeah, you are right, the Shiva can cover what that Marshall does and much more.

You nailed it, just a bad case of gas. I would dig having that tone on hand, and to have something rare like an unmolested fawn late 70s Marshall. I'm getting over the gas for that amp, though.

The Marshall has faster response, openess and punch, compared to the softer low end, thicker mids and somewhat fizzy nature of the Shiva's drive channel. The Marshall has "that" sound and touch. These are the things that makes me want to grab the 2204.


After doing some research, it seems there are some amps out there that can do the Marshall thing better than the Shiva or the 2204. Splawn, Ceriatone, Friedman. I wouldn't mind keeping the Shiva for clean and then grabbing something that has those qualities that I like in the Marshall, but reaches higher gain with more punch that the Shiva.

It's a sickness.

That old late 70's/ early 80's Marshall magic will always be in the Iron, and to a lesser extent the old Mustard caps - and like everything else, they just can't make that like back in the day . Other than that, I've heard So-So ( sorry for the name drop) say his Splawn has so much versatility and does a pretty much spot on JCM. That said, IMO, if you want a 100% authentic JCM/JMP< get one.
Otherwise, if getting most of the way there will do , then by all means grab the new ones and don't look back.
Fur me, I'll keep the JMP< and eventually hopefull grab somehing like a SLO.

 

[xxxplorer]

Re: Bogner Shiva vs 78 JMP 2204: Vids and Clips

Want to avoid GAS? Unhook your computer and just play for a bit hahahaha.

 

[woemoejack]

Re: Bogner Shiva vs 78 JMP 2204: Vids and Clips

You get this at the GC in Arlington? cuz I saw an identical 2204 in there and the manager said it was already sold, now come to find out someone on the forum bought it, small world.

 

[NT02]

Re: Bogner Shiva vs 78 JMP 2204: Vids and Clips

Yep, GC Arlington. It's back, with the matching 4x12. It there yesterday. They're asking too much for it, IMO. Actually, $2200 for the half stack isn't too bad, but I'm over it. I've found that lowering the gain and cranking the master on the Shiva gets me close enough for me.

Instead I found a Bogner Mojado...totally by accident. I'm about to post about that now.

MM, yeah, I think it's those old trannys. They provide the lower plate voltage that gets the browner tone. At least, that's what I have been reading. Love that tone, but it has to be loud to get it! SLO kills. I've had a couple of HR50+s and have played through a SLO for a couple of hours. Rock on.

 

[papersoul]

Re: Bogner Shiva vs 78 JMP 2204: Vids and Clips

I'll take the Bogner! That said, the new 20th Anniversary Shiva with EL34s is the best yet! More open than the previous Shiva. Try the 20th!
The new 20th Ann Marshall is very open and not fizzy and dark on the lead channel. It DOES get the chunk and kerrang of the Marshall.

 

[CTN]

Re: Bogner Shiva vs 78 JMP 2204: Vids and Clips

Get a Splawn. If it's just tone you're after, not the look of the '78 JMP or its mojo and aura, a Splawn will get you there with ease.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Bogner Shiva vs 78 JMP 2204: Vids and Clips

I recently purchased this fawn 2204 from GC for $1600 + tax, but returned it a few days later due to the cost. There are many out there for considerably less. But the tone of this amp in particular is kinda haunting me.

Here is a video I made, quickly comparing the tone:


And here are some recordings with a LP into each amp, 2x12 with V30s, SM57, Apogee Duet, Garageband. Clips are at the bottom of the page. JMP vs Shiva is heavy rhythm and lead. Shiva vs JMP is clean loop thru a Fender Dual Showman with lead. The tracks with 1 are JMP, 2 is Shiva:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/def...ent=music&songcount=42&offset=0&currentPage=2



What I've discovered is that I love the rhythm tone of this JMP. I prefer the clean on the Shiva and the lead tone on the Shiva is pretty sweet. But the Shiva is too fizzy and dark on the lead channel to get the chunk and kerrang of the Marshall. ACDC balls on the Marshall all day. Not so much on the Shiva.

So, now I'm considering picking up a 2204 kit from Ceriatone or Metro and building an amp, but am afraid that it won't capture the tone of this JMP. I've tried out many Marshalls, and some of those have been 2204s, and none have the tone of this one. I'm having a bad case of GAS.

The fixxiness you hear with the Shiva could simply be the speakers. Vintage 30's are NOT my favorite speaker with a Shiva. I prefer Greenbacks. They break up in a more natural way.

 

[NT02]

Re: Bogner Shiva vs 78 JMP 2204: Vids and Clips

It's back!
I've had a few different amps since this thread.
The Sig:X is a great amp.
The 20th Shiva has all of the great tone of the older model, with a few nifty upgrades that renders it more flexible. But, it still doesn't have that straight up Marshall attack.
I tried the Bogner through EVH speakers, basically anniv greenbacks, as well as the CL80. I much prefer the Vintage 30s. They are my favorite speaker.
I will gladly try out a Splawn if I ever come across one.
I won't order an expensive amp without trying it out first.
Played a JVM410h yesterday. Was impressed.