Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

[millsart]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

Theres really no right or wrong answer regarding batteries keep in mind. Many may prefer an old carbon battery in a FF et al, however, that doesn't mean its a "bad" sound using an alkaline or even the dc input jack. Its all simply a matter of taste and one mans idea of a great fuzz might be an Si fuzz using a 9v adapter, another may prefer a Ge with a halfdead carbon battery and one screw left off the battery door.

Try an alkaline and pick up a $.99 carbon battery at the story and give both a test, see what you like better or if you can even notice a difference. If not, big deal, your out $.99 for the battery but at least you'll know.



The Axis fuzz is definatly a cool effect by the way (had to throw that in there)

 

[ErikH]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

There are a million and a half TS clones out there...all of them are pretty good to boot, however 99.8% of the FF clones out there SUCK ROCKS!

Im not saying you have to shell out for an original Arbiter but a good FF is hard to find...that is why Fuzz pedals in general get a bad rap...most of them suck!

If you do a FF best of luck...try to get some killer trannys...NKT275's if you can...OC Mullards (and their various copies) as well as the AC's and such just don't sound right in a FF...at least not to me.

I guess you don't like the original Arbiter FF then. The original used AC128 trannys.

It's an easy circuit that I could throw in the breadboard pretty fast and then tweak as needed. I've got a bunch of NPN trannys to play with so an NPN version will probably be first and then if I like it enough, go for a PNP version with the NKT275 and a few others.

BTW...the Axis is not much like a FF at all...I bought an Axis hoping to get a FF tone and was not even close.

The Axis is cool buit it ain't a FF.

It's just a different flavor of FF. That's just snobbery talkin' there, bro. The Classic Fuzz is really closer to the Aribiter and actually is the exact mods that he did to Hendrix's FF's.

Read the Technology of the Fuzz Face here: http://www.geofex.com.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

I guess you don't like the original Arbiter FF then. The original used AC128 trannys.
It's an easy circuit that I could throw in the breadboard pretty fast and then
tweak as needed. I've got a bunch of NPN trannys to play with so an NPN version will probably be first and then if I like it enough, go for a PNP version with the NKT275 and a few others.
It's just a different flavor of FF. That's just snobbery talkin' there, bro. The Classic Fuzz is really closer to the Aribiter and actually is the exact mods that he did to Hendrix's FF's.
Read the Technology of the Fuzz Face here: http://www.geofex.com.

-NONE of the original Fuzz Faces used AC128 trannys...not a one

-I know it's a simple circuit but that doesn't mean it's easy to make one that sounds good...

-No sonbbery at all...just stating facts, an Axis Fuzz is not a Fuzz Face, is it a Fuzz? Sure, but not a Fuzz Face...maybe close but not the same, not even close.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

From Geofex.com.

The earliest FF's were made with AC128's, a common Euro type at the time the FF was designed. It seems likely that the AC 128 was picked for it's cost and availability (in retrospect) rather than any super sound qualities.

I know the man that wrote that. He's been doing electronics and effects for a very very long time. I think he knows what he's talking about.

Good sound is different to everybody. But yeah, the simple ones can be finicky sometimes. It all boils down to the gain and leakage of the transistors used (for germaniums anyway).

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

From Geofex.com.
The earliest FF's were made with AC128's, a common Euro type at the time the FF was designed. It seems likely that the AC 128 was picked for it's cost and availability (in retrospect) rather than any super sound qualities.
I know the man that wrote that. He's been doing electronics and effects for a very very long time. I think he knows what he's talking about.

Sorry bro...Im sure he knows a little bit but he's wrong on that one. I know that to be untrue...

From AnalogMan.com

"You will read on some websites that some original fuzzface pedals used an AC128 transistor. However, I and all my fuzzface friends have NEVER seen these in an original fuzzface from the 1960s, and we have seen literally hundreds of them. The AC128 was however found in the grey reissues made in recent years. The AC-128s we pulled out of these reissue fuzzes sound horrible. We also tried all the AC-128s versions available on ebay and from suppliers all over the world but none sounded good. We really hoped we could find an alternate transistor (as we are getting low on the NKTs) but we could not use any of the AC-128 transistors..."

FWIW, I have also spoken with several effects gurus and none of them have ever seen an original AC128 Fuzz Face either...the guys that hype AC128 trannys in a FF either can't find NKT 275's, can't afford NKT 275's or simply can't tell the difference also those same guys often sell FF clones or kits with AC128 since they are far easier to find and afford than NKT's but that still doesn't make the correct...

 

[ErikH]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

Sorry bro...Im sure he knows a little bit but he's wrong on that one. I know that to be untrue...

A bit more than a little bit. He's been in the business for years and has done stuff himself with a few makers, Visual Sound being one. The fact of the matter is just because Mike and you have never seen any doesn't mean they weren't out there.

Lots and lots of FFs were made and about 1 in 10 sounded any good. There was an article that I read somewhere with Roger Mayer stating that he and Jimi would go through boxes and boxes (meaning cases) of FFs just to pick out the good ones. The rest got sent back.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

A bit more than a little bit. He's been in the business for years and has done stuff himself with a few makers, Visual Sound being one. The fact of the matter is just because Mike and you have never seen any doesn't mean they weren't out there.
Lots and lots of FFs were made and about 1 in 10 sounded any good. There was an article that I read somewhere with Roger Mayer stating that he and Jimi would go through boxes and boxes (meaning cases) of FFs just to pick out the good ones. The rest got sent back.

The only thing wrong with most original FF's in most cases is the bias of the germanium trannys and the fact that it was not adjustable...I mean if you use good trannys and set it up right it's a no brainer...after the trannys there is only like 6 or 7 other parts anyway!

If only 1 out of 10 vintage Fuzz Faces sounded any good then why is it that now 10 out of 10 vintage fuzz gfaces will command the same crazy high price?

On the issue of the AC128's sorry it's simply not true. The first Fuzz Face pedals with AC128 trannys was actully pretty recent...I htink in the 80's sometime. It's not just an issue of never seeing any it's also that no old schematics reflect AC128's Dallas Arbiter never shows records of ever ordering any AC128 and not a single original (60's or 70's) Fuzz Face has ever popped up wiht ORIGINAL AC128 it's just as simply as they never used them...not in the old days.

However there is no point in discussing it like this back and fourth...it's simply not productive. I am sure it's one way, you're sure it's not so be it...

If you build one best of luck and I hope you enjoy it just remember...it's a very simple circuit and is one of the most often runied ones out there...it's really easy to make a crappy sounding Fuzz Face...and not near as easy to make a good sounding one.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

If only 1 out of 10 vintage Fuzz Faces sounded any good then why is it that now 10 out of 10 vintage fuzz gfaces will command the same crazy high price?

Because of that word, "vintage", and another one, "Jimi". Associate those two with them and the prices skyrocket. Not to mention supply and demand. People pay stupid money for stuff like that, as we have seen.

I'll be playing with it on the breadboard for a while I'm sure.

 

[HyBr1d]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

This has been a great question and one that’s been on my mind for a while! I luckily found the carbon zinc batteries at a dollar store, bought like 20 of them and didn’t think twice because they were cheap...This was over 5 months ago...Granted, I don’t gig every night so I’m not super worried, but I haven’t changed batteries in the ones I’ve kept(I kinda try and then move on with pedals...I’m thinking of getting more, just don’t know if I should go to the dollar store again or just try to find some online? Was wondering what ppl thought, because I tend to say with what the pedal manufacturer calls for!

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

If you are using them in a Fuzz Face and you unplug in between uses, even a carbon zinc battery should last months. 20 should be good for years.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

The batteries will probably be dead on the shelf before you ever get to use them all.

 

[Ascension]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

Old carbon batteries will sag in voltage and current when you hit them with a high draw. New style batteries like a Duracell wont sag in voltage and current. Can make a pedal sound different but will NOT stay consistent over a full set. I always run a power supply so I have a more consistent tome through an entire set. It's like the difference in running a tube rec or a SS rec in a tube amp.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

So we’re talking about a difference in feel...right?

Not so much a difference in tone or sound?

That’s something I mention a lot.

And not everyone notices a difference in feel, and those who don’t might deny any difference at all, depending on how they play, how they pick, etc.

And those who don’t might call those of us who do “cork sniffers”...or worse.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

i notice a tone difference in a fuzzface circuit, especially germanium ones. in my red dot sunface i wont use anything but an old style carbon 9v.

 

[Ascension]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

So we’re talking about a difference in feel...right?

Not so much a difference in tone or sound?

That’s something I mention a lot.

And not everyone notices a difference in feel, and those who don’t might deny any difference at all, depending on how they play, how they pick, etc.

And those who don’t might call those of us who do “cork sniffers”...or worse.

Mostly feel but also tonal differences. While may use old carbon batteries in the studio I personally will never use them live because they die so quickly that in a long set your tone will change. I prefer the constancy of a power supply live as it never gets in that something is just not right but cant put my finger on territory like a low battery can.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

i wouldnt use anything besides the carbon in a fuzzface. even the silicon keeley blacktop sounds much better with the old battery and they last a good long time in those devices. id never use a digital delay on a carbon battery for a gig, power supply if at all possible

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

Mostly feel but also tonal differences. While may use old carbon batteries in the studio I personally will never use them live because they die so quickly that in a long set your tone will change. I prefer the constancy of a power supply live as it never gets in that something is just not right but cant put my finger on territory like a low battery can.

Of course this is what Eric Johnson alludes to. And he’s right.

But a lot of guys who don’t hear and feel the difference make fun of him and say he’s full of...you know what.

But he’s right. And so are you and Jeremy.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

Of course this is what Eric Johnson alludes to. And he’s right.

But a lot of guys who don’t hear and feel the difference make fun of him and say he’s full of...you know what.

But he’s right. And so are you and Jeremy.

I have to imagine those that are making fun of him are thinking Energizer vs Duracell in a Tube Screamer, not Carbon Zinc vs Alkaline in a Fuzz Face.

 

[67Mopar]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

I purchased a Skreddy Pig Mine fuzz pedal last year. Best sounding fuzz I've ever owned. Nails DSOTM "Time" fuzz tone! I run mine in the reduced voltage bay on a Voodoo Lab PP2 power supply.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Boutique Pedals & Non Alkaline batteries?

the skreddy is muff based i believe and i havent noticed muffs being very sensitive to what power the use