Bridge pickup without the honk

[andyg_prs]

Hi,

I've been playing my self-build Strat recently. HSH, mahogany body, maple cap, 24 frets, set maple neck / rosewood board, fixed bridge.

It's a Dimarzio Evo (DP158) in the neck and Dimarzio ToneZone (DP155) in the bridge. The bridge is just too honky for me. Particularly evident when switching from the neck pickup, but more so than in other guitars I have.

I remember a Tim Pierce video where he was praising certain PRS pickups for not having that nasal effect.

For Dimarzio I was wondering about maybe the Andy Timmons AT-1.

For SD, the Custom 5 seems to have a mid scoop yet I can't really hear that in any of the clips that I've listened to.

What are your recommendations?

Picture of said guitar:



Thanks,
Andy

 

[jeremy]

a tone zone in the neck and evo in the bridge? thats an odd combo for sure. the tz is pretty meaty as a bridge pup, have to imagine that its very thick in the neck. i always found the evo bridge very narrow but cutting. if you are worried about too much mid, the c5 is a good choice. the at1 is pretty middy from my experience, not in a bad way but might not be what you are going after

 

[andyg_prs]

a tone zone in the neck and evo in the bridge? thats an odd combo for sure. the tz is pretty meaty as a bridge pup, have to imagine that its very thick in the neck. i always found the evo bridge very narrow but cutting. if you are worried about too much mid, the c5 is a good choice. the at1 is pretty middy from my experience, not in a bad way but might not be what you are going after

Please see the edit on my original statement - I am an idiot sorry! It's a Dimarzio Evo (DP158) in the neck and Dimarzio ToneZone (DP155) in the bridge!

 

[eclecticsynergy]

DiMarzios are known for that vowel tone; it's characteristic in most of Larry's models and so pronounced in some that it's often been described as cocked-wah tone.

Duncan Custom 5 is far less midrangey, but humbuckers typically have strong mids - especially those with higher output.

Generally the hotter a pickup's coils are wound, the more midrange will be present in its output.
There are other factors, of course. But if all else is unchanged and more windings are the only variable this virtually always holds true.

For something with good noise rejection yet without any of the usual humbucker mid-bump you might consider the Anderson H2 or H2+.
These use a different design from regular humbuckers and the response is much more even across the frequency spectrum, quite hi-fi sounding.

I have an H2 in a 25½" scale guitar; and I've considered replacing it with an H2+ for higher output and a little more midrange.

 

[idsnowdog]

Try a 1 meg pot on the volume.

 

[Mincer]

Certainly a Custom 5, but you can get that sound out of a 59, Jazz bridge, and Pegasus, too.

 

[andyg_prs]

DiMarzios are known for that vowel tone; it's characteristic in most of Larry's models and so pronounced in some that it's often been described as cocked-wah tone.

Duncan Custom 5 is far less midrangey, but humbuckers typically have strong mids - especially those with higher output.

Generally the hotter a pickup's coils are wound, the more midrange will be present in its output.
There are other factors, of course. But if all else is unchanged and more windings are the only variable this virtually always holds true.

For something with good noise rejection yet without any of the usual humbucker mid-bump you might consider the Anderson H2 or H2+.
These use a different design from regular humbuckers and the response is much more even across the frequency spectrum, quite hi-fi sounding.

I have an H2 in a 25½" scale guitar; and I've considered replacing it with an H2+ for higher output and a little more midrange.

Thanks - I have a Suhr SSH+ somewhere and also a PRS HFS....so perhaps I should give one of those a try first....

 

[Ace Flibble]

The DiMarzio Steve's Special was designed specifically for this purpose. It's got an extremely wide response range and about the least mids possible in a high output pickup; it's more scooped than a C5. It's kind of like a Custom/59 Hybrid with a ceramic magnet, and a little more powerful overall. A scooped Evo is another way to think of it. It's the tonal opposite of the Tone Zone.

 

[formula73]

I love the honk. That’s where the aggression lives.

 

[andyg_prs]

The DiMarzio Steve's Special was designed specifically for this purpose. It's got an extremely wide response range and about the least mids possible in a high output pickup; it's more scooped than a C5. It's kind of like a Custom/59 Hybrid with a ceramic magnet, and a little more powerful overall. A scooped Evo is another way to think of it. It's the tonal opposite of the Tone Zone.

I'll have no choice but to try different things...I like warmth, but I'm told warmth also = mids...but for example, the neck isn't at all nasal to my mind. The Custom 5 sounds like a safe bet......so I might try that...can seem them new on eBay at £69 delivered. The other option is to try installing one of the bridge pickups I have already - Suhr SSH+ or PRS HFS.....neither sounded honky to me in the other guitars I've tried them in....Suhr Modern / Rasmus Modern / Vigier Excalbur / PRS CE24.......in fact I have the VB / HFS combination in most of my other guitars...so maybe I should try that first as I have a set?

 

[jeremy]

cant hurt to try and since you are very familiar with those pups, itll give you a good idea of how this guitar is different than your others

 

[esandes]

500k pots and a slash bridge. If the neck pickup doesn't take the mod well I'd replace the neck pickup.

 

[Aceman]

The general Duncan tone curve is Bass + Highs

The Dimarzio one is Bass plus Mids

No surprise the DMZ's were not your thing. As everyone already said - you want a C5

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Thanks - I have a Suhr SSH+ somewhere and also a PRS HFS....so perhaps I should give one of those a try first....

SSH+ does have a hi-fi sound, I have a DSH; some find them lacking in character but I think of them as transparent and accurate.
The Andersons are even more so but IMO the Suhr is definitely worth trying. Noticeably lower output than the Tone Zone, of course.
You might need to lower the Evo to balance with it. I'd say definitely worth trying though.

HFS is a good bridge pickup too, especially for high gain playing.
Ceramics always seem to feel a little stiff to me.
But they make up for it in body and aggression.

 

[Ace Flibble]

The general Duncan tone curve is Bass + Highs

The Dimarzio one is Bass plus Mids

I'll dispute that, both in terms of it being a poor idea to generalise either brand's sounds when they each make dozens upon dozens of pickups all with different styles of tonal balance and response, and also that 'mids' is a very vague term to use given what a wide frequency range it covers.

For my money, bass and treble in comparable SD and DM pickups (e.g. a '59 to a PAF Pro, Distortion to a Super Distortion, etc) tends to be the same. Where the difference tends to be, strictly in the most comparable pickups, is SD winds to push the upper half of the mids more while DM wind to push the lower half of the mids. That said, there really are only a handful of pickup models by each company that can be compared this way, there are many exceptions to those tendencies, and overall it is much wiser to take each pickup on its own merits rather than trying to generalise an entire brand. After all, DM make things like the Humbucker From Hell, Super 2 and Steve's Special, all of which significantly lack lower-mids, while SD make the Invader which nobody can say emphasises any part of the high-end.
Never forget, EMG may be famous for treble-heavy scooped metal, but they make some very popular and extremely smooth jazz and country pickups. There isn't a single pickup manufacturer in the world that has a tone signature that pervades all their products. Always take each pickup as it is, never assume anything about a pickup because of the brand name.

 

[andyg_prs]

This is all really fascinating I think I'll try and capture the "issue" the current pickups have...and then replace with the PRS VB/HFS set that I like in other guitars and record again.

 

[Reee]

Thanks - I have a Suhr SSH+ somewhere and also a PRS HFS....so perhaps I should give one of those a try first....

definitely try the SSH+, I had a Tonezon and it is indeed honky! the SSH+ is like a more dynamic JB/TZ without as much honk.

 

[Aceman]

Yes - I generalize at the highest level. As I intended to do. Of course companies with lines that large make everything.

 

[andyg_prs]

Hi,

An update, which I hope might be useful. Having played and compared the guitar in question to my Vigier with PRS pickups, I decided I'd try installing the Artec EXP Expander I bought years ago but never installed, it has a flat boost, a mid boost and a V-shaped boost (mid scoop). However, after pondering the control cavity for sometime I remembered just how complex my old switching set up was. A 5 way selector, with a push/push volume control - Rothwell ACT (like a variable coil tap) a push/push tone - bridge HB override, and a toggle switch for add bridge. It would need pretty much a complete re-wire to get the Artec EXP installed.

So, I documented the existing set up, and gutted the guitar. I decided to go for the same switching options as my PRS CE24....it's a 3 way toggle for the two humbuckers, with a push/push for coil tap.

I have a spare 3 way Fender-style switch, and can use the toggle switch for the tap.

In the meantime, I decided to measure the resistance of the various pickups - I think this is of interest as it's not always advertised for all pickups, particularly not PRS. Of course, there might be other readings I should be taking with my (cheap) multimeter. I don't think you can measure the mAmp output with the guitar on the bench?

As a control, I measured the Lace hot gold middle pickup (SKU 2109) which states 6k but I measured it at 5.61. Not sure if that means my multimeter is out, or something else...the pickup is about 16 years old.

Measurements (kohms)

Dimarzio DP158 (Evolution - neck)
Full 12.84
Split to hot 5.69
Split to ground 7.14

Dimarzio DP155 (ToneZone - Bridge)
Full 17.8
Split to hot 9.35
Split to ground 8.43

PRS VB (neck)
Full 8.7
Split either way 4.35

PRS HFS (bridge)
Full 15.68
Split either way 7.84

Suhr SSV (neck)
Full 7.62
Split either way 3.81

Suhr DA (neck)
Full 8.69
Split either way 4.34

Suhr SSH+ (bridge)
Full 17.39
Split either way 8.7

Wiring to come later in the week.

Cheers,
Andy