Bridge PU for Les Paul

Janglin_Jack

Janglin_Jack

New member
Tonight I was a little unhappy with my bridge PU on my Les Paul. I have been using my Custom Custom and really like the mids for overdrive/distorted rock tones. I am becoming a bit bothered by the mids for my clean sound lately. I think most of it has to do with my use of single coil guitars and my Gretsches. The one I won't change is my PGn, (perfect neck PU for me). Over the years I have used many pickups and have been happy with them for periods of time. Amps changed and songs choices changed and personal taste as well. I think the one I liked best, besides the Custom Custom was the PGb.

Is there something that gets the Alnico II sound of the PGb and some of the mids and compression of the Custom Custom, without sounding so round in the cleans, (Custom Custom). I haven't used a 59b in a LONG time and maybe that could do it, but I remember that being mid scooped a bit and slightly bassy. I thought the Duncan Custom was the one, but it felt a little too hard rock and cleans not as sweet. I am reluctant to go back the PGb, as I changed it out for a reason, (that reason escapes me a bit as it has been years since I had one). My memory is that it had a bit too much bite and I wanted a bit more mids and thicker sound.

I am not counting anything out, just looking for some help in finding the right bridge PU. I play through a Mark IV with a V30 speaker, (part of the reason I think too much mids with my Custom Custom now).

Thanks,
Jack
 
Re: Bridge PU for Les Paul

to me, alnico II will almost always sound round with cleans, overwound, underwound, or whatever.
The alnico II pro sounds like it could work? I used a neck one for a long time with a CC in the bridge and the A2pro really feels like a sweeter, more open version of the CC. That leads me to believe the bridge model would sound likewise.

I use a '59b in my LP. It doesn't have near the mids or output of the CC but I'm using my amp for gain and not my pickups these days. The mid-scooped bassy thing of the 59b brings out the low notes I kind of missed with the CC. I can feel my picking dynamics more. I don't like much compression on my clean tones but if I do again I'll get it from the amp.
 
Re: Bridge PU for Les Paul

If you think there's too much mids with the CC, then try either a C5 or simply swapping the mag in your CC, it's easy and if you don't care for it, easily reversable. The C5 or a 59 will have slightly scooped mids but too me at least, is the "sound" of a Les Paul. I've tried the CC/PGn and A2pro and didn't care for any of them, as soon as I found the C5, I stopped messing around with pickup swaps.
 
Re: Bridge PU for Les Paul

I'll have to admit that once I got a 59 set I haven't been tempted to swap pickups at all in my LP

except I did want to try a c5 i suppose

o and i guess if you were worried about a 59 having scooped mids, maybe a seth would bring some of that back.
 
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Re: Bridge PU for Les Paul

I use 250K's on the bridge with A5 magnets, which takes off some treble and makes the mids stand out, but doesn't give an overly rounded top. I need 'bite' in my playing style, and I find it by using a magnet with more treble. And A8 is also a good option, especially in a Custom (C8), as you get warmth, higher output, tighter lows, and don't give up so much treble. To me, an A8 is an ideal replacement magnet for an A2 bridge PU that isn't up to the task.
 
Re: Bridge PU for Les Paul

I bought a '59 today at my local shop, will install tonight. Lew from Lew's Guitars explained with an SG and the midrange sound of the guitar, it could benefit from the slight mid scoop of the the '59 and add some top end and bass. I used the same logic, since my Mesa Mark IV and V30 are mid rangy, I opted to go for the '59 for similar reason. I'll let you know how it works out!!

Jack
 
Re: Bridge PU for Les Paul

Janglin_Jack said:
I bought a '59 today at my local shop, will install tonight. Lew from Lew's Guitars explained with an SG and the midrange sound of the guitar, it could benefit from the slight mid scoop of the the '59 and add some top end and bass. I used the same logic, since my Mesa Mark IV and V30 are mid rangy, I opted to go for the '59 for similar reason. I'll let you know how it works out!!

Jack
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I do think SG's sound a little thin and twangy - they're only like a 1 1/4" thick and you don't need a vibrato bar with an SG - you can just flex the whole guitar like a spring.

Les Pauls are a totally different beast and the thick body, shorter and more solid neck (same 24 3/4" scale length as a SG) and single cutaway give a Les Paul a much thicker tone than an SG.

I like 59's in an SG because the '59 reminds me of Clapton's tone when he played his early 60's SG in Cream, although the pickups Clapton used probably had a slightly shorter alnico 5 magnet (after '60 or '61 Gibson changed the humbucker design slightly) than the alnico 5 magnet in a 59B.

And I like 59's in a Les Paul because they remind me of Clapton's tone when he played his '60 Les Paul with John Mayall and that guitar probably had paf's with the longer alnico 5 magnet and the same wind as a 59B.

Either way the '59 will have a little less output than the Custom Custom, less mids, more treble, more but tighter bass and more of a vintage sound.

I've used Custom Customs in many guitars. They're great if you're trying to tame a very bright amp or very bright guitar but they're very smooth and I don't use them in my own guitars anymore because I like a little more bite and more of a vintage sound. And I prefer my bridge humbuckers to be around 8K to 9K.

Never tried a PGn with a 59B but the PGn is my favorite production neck humbucker.

A Duncan Custom is a good sound in a Les Paul too - you could just change your Custom Custom to a ceramic magnet if you can find the right one.

The Custom 5 didn't work for me unless I was playing very loud - then it rocked and sounded very good. At lower volumes I just felt that it lacked mids and was bit to trebely. But that's me.

The Custom has more mids and I have one in a Strat right now. I do not hear it as being overly bright and sizzley as some have described it. To me it sounds really good and it's my favorite of the three Customs.

Haven't tried the Custom 8 or the Brobucker.

Hope you like the 59B!

Lew
 
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Re: Bridge PU for Les Paul

I really like the CC in my 1988 ESP Horizon neck through, but it's a very different animal than an LP - long scale, ebony FB, neck through arch top with a Floyd.

I go for creamier pickups in my brighter guitars and thinner brighter pickups in my fatter guitars (LPs).

I can't really comment on a clean pickup for a Les Paul because I'm pretty much a metal head. The closest of my 4 LPs to the sound of my Custom Custom loaded guitar would be the BB2 in my R0.
 
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Re: Bridge PU for Les Paul

super rad stuff said:
wait, you live near lewguitar? that's awesome!
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No, I have asked him many, many questons in this forum, by email and by talking to him on the telephone. He has always given me great information!! I have bought almost two dozen PU from him.

Anyhow, I dropped in the '59 last night and played it through head phones. Not the best test, but this is my late night practice method so my babies can sleep. Anyhow, I can get a really good sense for the sound that way, but the real test will come when I can play with the band. I had to balance the sound a bit before I was happy, more than I have messed with any other pickup. I dropped the high E and B and low E and A string pole pieces down so the screw heads were flush with the bobbins. I raised the G and D up a bit to balance the output. Started with the PU at 4/64" on both E strings while fretting at the last fret. It was a little bassy, bright and brash to start. I raised and lowered it and settled on 5/64" for low E and 6/64" for high E. Balanced tone, fairly even EQ and nice bite. Great clarity especially with overdrive!! Really looking forward to hearing it at full volume. I have a gig on Sat, that will probably be my first chance with work and family.

Thanks,
Jack
 
Re: Bridge PU for Les Paul

Hope you like the 59B just as is. But if you don't, you might want to try swapping the alnico 2 magnet in your Custom Custom with the alnico 5 magnet in your 59B. Since the 59B is already in your guitar, you could put the alnico 2 magnet from the CC in there and see what you think of that tone. It'll fatten it up and give you more mids and a smoother treble. If that doesn't float your boat, then put the alnico 5 magnet from the 59B in the CC and put the CC back in your guitar. The alnico 5 magnet will turn the Custom Custom into a Custom 5. Do not turn the magnets around. Pay attention to how they are oriented in the pickups. If you roll the magnet over or turn it around 180 degrees your neck and bridge pickups will be out of phase and sound thin when combined. No big deal but you'll have to disassemble your pickup again and spin the magnet around 180 degress to put them back in phase with each other.

Lew
 
Re: Bridge PU for Les Paul

Lewguitar said:
Hope you like the 59B just as is. But if you don't, you might want to try swapping the alnico 2 magnet in your Custom Custom with the alnico 5 magnet in your 59B. Since the 59B is already in your guitar, you could put the alnico 2 magnet from the CC in there and see what you think of that tone. It'll fatten it up and give you more mids and a smoother treble. If that doesn't float your boat, then put the alnico 5 magnet from the 59B in the CC and put the CC back in your guitar. The alnico 5 magnet will turn the Custom Custom into a Custom 5. Do not turn the magnets around. Pay attention to how they are oriented in the pickups. If you roll the magnet over or turn it around 180 degrees your neck and bridge pickups will be out of phase and sound thin when combined. No big deal but you'll have to disassemble your pickup again and spin the magnet around 180 degress to put them back in phase with each other.

Lew
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Very cool, may give that a try!! If I put the Alnico V mag in the CC, that will get me a Custom 5. If I put the Alnico II mag in the '59, what does that get me, a Seth Lover or Pearly Gate or Alnico II Pro, or something unique??

Thanks,
Jack
 
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Re: Bridge PU for Les Paul

Well, the magnet swap is complete. I pulled the Alnico V magnet out of the '59 and swapped it with the Alnico II from the Custom Custom. Set the PU height and adjusted the pole pieces and viola....excellent tone!! Nice response. Softer bass as expected, good mid content and nice top end. The pickup is very responsive and articulate. Without having a Pearly Gates or Seth Lover to compare to, it is hard to say if it would be identical to one of the other models, however it doesn't matter to me. The PGn measure 7.1K dc ohms and the Alnico II '59 bridge at around 8.1K. Good compression and great EQ. Will let you know how it performs tomorrow at my gig, but this is a nice sounding PU. Very happy with the results so far.

Jack
 
Re: Bridge PU for Les Paul

Janglin_Jack said:
Well, the magnet swap is complete. I pulled the Alnico V magnet out of the '59 and swapped it with the Alnico II from the Custom Custom. Set the PU height and adjusted the pole pieces and viola....excellent tone!! Nice response. Softer bass as expected, good mid content and nice top end. The pickup is very responsive and articulate. Without having a Pearly Gates or Seth Lover to compare to, it is hard to say if it would be identical to one of the other models, however it doesn't matter to me. The PGn measure 7.1K dc ohms and the Alnico II '59 bridge at around 8.1K. Good compression and great EQ. Will let you know how it performs tomorrow at my gig, but this is a nice sounding PU. Very happy with the results so far.

Jack
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Awesome! I love it when a plan comes together. :)
 
Re: Bridge PU for Les Paul

Lew, now I'm getting more interested in what makes PU sound the way they sound. Is there any difference to the Alnico II magnet used in the CC vs say the PG or Seth Lover? What effect on sound is 42 plain enamel wire, vs other types of wire used in other humbucker designs? I know thinner wire can be used to get more winds, but what about same guage coated vs not coated - scatter wound?? Also, in reading the specs, is resonant peak the frequency where the PU is most efficient and therefore a sign of how bright or dark it will be??

Thanks,
Jack
 
Re: Bridge PU for Les Paul

O yeah....Fricken MONEY!!! That bridge PU sounded awesome tonight at my gig. I am still currious how the '59 would match up with a Duncan PAF with Alnico II magnets, (PGb, Seth Lover, Alnico II pro) but the '59 with the CC Alnico II magneti is perfect!

Funny how I got back to the PAF bridge. My first Les Paul was a 1982 Gibson X-R1, (stock it came with Gibson "Dirtly Fingers" PU). When I bought it used, it had a Dirty Fingers neck and Dimarzio Super Distortion bridge. I changed both out for 496R and 500T. I then put in '59 and thought they were too boomy. Turned out the tech I took it too, (before I started doing mods myself) put the neck in the bridge and the bridge in the neck..LOL. When I found that out, I was in the process of putting in Seth Lovers. I was very happy with them, but then got a deal on a brand new Epiphone Elitist LP Standard Plus. Those have bone nuts, long neck tennon joints and came with Gibson designed Alnico PU. The bridge was hot like a CC. I changed them out with a PG set. I then went for the PGn and CC and sold my XR-1. I had this set for years, which brought me to the point I am now, where I wanted better clarity from the bridge PU. At one point, I installed a Duncan Custom and thought it was a little too "hard rock" sounding. Anyhow, this set up is the best yet, (from memory). In another guitar I used 490R and 498T, Burstbucker 1, 2 and 3. I am sure I could have been satisfied with many of the PAF Alnico II style PU, but there is something about this '59 with the Alnico mag.

Bottom line, that '59 with Alnico II sounded so sweet, the perfect balance of smooth and warm with bass and treble and compression. Great feel and dynamics.

Now my question is how would the CC with Alnico V mag, sound in the bridge of my SG, (currently has a '59).

Thanks again,
Jack
 
Re: Bridge PU for Les Paul

from what i've read, a C5 in an SG is classic- the C5 is a thicker pickup with lots of bass/low mids and treble, and an SG has got lots of upper mids, so it's a very complementing setup.
 
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