Brobucker Vs. 59/Custom Hybrid

K

KramerShredder

New member
So, I have been trying to decide what humbucker to put in my 1987 Kramer Baretta and I am torn between these two pickups. The guitar has a poplar body with a maple neck and a rosewood fingerboard. I play only 80's metal and am going for a humbucker that gets a good brown sound(hey, who isn't?).

I like that people say that the 59/Custom Hybrid is open sounding and bright, but I also like that the BB sounds like it has a nice vintage crunch to it because the mids a compressed. My problem is I'm kind of looking for both. I'm worried that the BB's mids would be too congested and make it sound like it has an alnico 2 magnet, which after trying the 78 Model I found out I'm an alnico 5 guy. I'm also worried that the BB won't have enough highs and lows because of the aged magnet. My concern with the 59/Custom Hybrid is that it is going to be bright without having enough vintage chew to it. Hopefully this makes sense. I'm kind of looking for a Screamin Demon with more grit in its sound not output. Just give me your guys oppinions on the two humbuckers.

I'm sure you guys have answered this questions several times before, but I'm new to the forums and can't find much information on this topic. So please put up with me. Thanks.
 
Re: Brobucker Vs. 59/Custom Hybrid

KramerShredder said:
So, I have been trying to decide what humbucker to put in my 1987 Kramer Baretta and I am torn between these two pickups. The guitar has a poplar body with a maple neck and a rosewood fingerboard. I play only 80's metal and am going for a humbucker that gets a good brown sound(hey, who isn't?).

I like that people say that the 59/Custom Hybrid is open sounding and bright, but I also like that the BB sounds like it has a nice vintage crunch to it because the mids a compressed. My problem is I'm kind of looking for both. I'm worried that the BB's mids would be too congested and make it sound like it has an alnico 2 magnet, which after trying the 78 Model I found out I'm an alnico 5 guy. I'm also worried that the BB won't have enough highs and lows because of the aged magnet. My concern with the 59/Custom Hybrid is that it is going to be bright without having enough vintage chew to it. Hopefully this makes sense. I'm kind of looking for a Screamin Demon with more grit in its sound not output. Just give me your guys oppinions on the two humbuckers.

I'm sure you guys have answered this questions several times before, but I'm new to the forums and can't find much information on this topic. So please put up with me. Thanks.
Click to expand...

if you're an A5 guy and wanting the brown sound, there are a few ways to go. one is the IM1 available through the custom shop which has a degaussed A5 and is slightly more focused than the 78. another is the Bare Knuckle VHII which has an A5 as well. both are in the same price range. the IM1 should be around $160+s/h and a 4-6 week wait. the VHII is on ebay right now through Capitol guitars, shipped for around $149.99.

poplar is a little brighter than alder and it should compliment the 78 pretty well. I also prefer A5 pickups, but I can pull off A2s in poplar that are muted and soft in any other wood but maple. the 59/C hybrid does have a big open sound, but it's a little jangly sounding at times to some people's ears. and if you're playing metal, I found it lacks a certain high end sustain that you would've gotten from that Baretta when it had the stock JB. if you still have the 78 model, consider dropping about $5 and try putting an UOA5 magnet in there, which will bridge the gap between A2 and A5.

and if you still have the stock JB that came with that guitar, have you tried to lower it away from the strings a bit. it'll still be plenty loud, but you'll notice a little more open and less compressed tone. you might also be able to try a RCA5 mag in that open to open it up a little bit as well.
 
Re: Brobucker Vs. 59/Custom Hybrid

Thanks for the response.

I have looked at the IM1 and the BKP VHII, but I like the DC resistance of the pickup to be around 10-12k ohms. This is due to to the fact that I like the Screamin Demon so much. I would just put a Demon in the guitar, but I have that in my other guitar and would like to have some difference between the two guitars. I'll probably have to throw the IM1 into the mix as far as pickups I'm looking at, so thanks for the tip. It looks close to the custom 5 which I know I like. As far as BKP go I would try them, but I'm a loyal Duncan user.

I don't have the original JB, but I don't like JB's anyway. I still have the 78, but I have never messed with taking pickups apart and I wouldn't want to ruin the pickup by changing the magnet. And I'm going to use the money I get from selling it to fund this next pickup. That's what guitarist do. :)
 
Re: Brobucker Vs. 59/Custom Hybrid

I have a Brobucker/PGn in my main LP and the C-59 in two Fenders (alder strat and pine tele).

The C/59 is probably what you're wanting to hear in your Kramer. The Brobucker is a great pickup too, but it is a tad looser and has a few similarities to an A2 pickup. Think of the C/59 as VH and the Brobucker as Gary Moore or Paul Kossoff.

I started playing clubs in the late 80's in So Cal (Sunset Strip etc.) Back then, most players who used Duncans in their superstrats had JB's, 59's, and Customs. I'm certain that if the C/59 Hybrid had been around back then, tons of players would have preferred it, and Kramer probably would have used it. I'm pretty sure Van Halen would have used it as well.
 
Re: Brobucker Vs. 59/Custom Hybrid

Thanks for the reply.

I'm okay with a looser feel, in fact I like a looser feel. I just don't know if the BB will sound too similar to an alnico 2 pickup. If I did order the BB should I order it with a normal magnet instead of an aged magnet to help with this?
 
Re: Brobucker Vs. 59/Custom Hybrid

KramerShredder said:
Thanks for the reply.

I'm okay with a looser feel, in fact I like a looser feel. I just don't know if the BB will sound too similar to an alnico 2 pickup. If I did order the BB should I order it with a normal magnet instead of an aged magnet to help with this?
Click to expand...

No, I think the dun-aged magnet sounds good in the Brobucker. But if you order one, specify that you want it factory potted. I think they come unpotted or very lightly potted??

Even though I have a few Brobuckers and like them, I'm more inclined to pay less and go for normal priced Duncans like the Whole Lotta Humbucker and C/59 Hybrid. My next pickup purchase will be a Whole Lotta Humbucker bridge. I've been wanting one of those mostly due to the specs and good reviews.
 
Re: Brobucker Vs. 59/Custom Hybrid

KramerShredder said:
Thanks for the response.

I have looked at the IM1 and the BKP VHII, but I like the DC resistance of the pickup to be around 10-12k ohms. This is due to to the fact that I like the Screamin Demon so much. I would just put a Demon in the guitar, but I have that in my other guitar and would like to have some difference between the two guitars. I'll probably have to throw the IM1 into the mix as far as pickups I'm looking at, so thanks for the tip. It looks close to the custom 5 which I know I like. As far as BKP go I would try them, but I'm a loyal Duncan user.

I don't have the original JB, but I don't like JB's anyway. I still have the 78, but I have never messed with taking pickups apart and I wouldn't want to ruin the pickup by changing the magnet. And I'm going to use the money I get from selling it to fund this next pickup. That's what guitarist do. :)
Click to expand...

Does that mean you are looking at DCR as a measurement of output?




Sent from my armored space station using Tapatalk on iPad
 
Re: Brobucker Vs. 59/Custom Hybrid

Somewhat. In my experience the dc resistance affects how much output the pickup has. I know that that isn't completely true, but it does seem to be a rule of thumb you can go by. Let me know if I am thinking completely wrong. I also forgot to mention that I play 1 channel amps, so which pickup roles down better?
 
Re: Brobucker Vs. 59/Custom Hybrid

The uneven coils in the Brobucker with same wire and different number of winds are an entirely different concept than coils with different wire and similar coil sizes.
 
Re: Brobucker Vs. 59/Custom Hybrid

KramerShredder said:
Somewhat. In my experience the dc resistance affects how much output the pickup has. I know that that isn't completely true, but it does seem to be a rule of thumb you can go by. Let me know if I am thinking completely wrong. I also forgot to mention that I play 1 channel amps, so which pickup roles down better?
Click to expand...

Magnets are a big part of a PU's output. Don't leave that out of the formula.
 
Re: Brobucker Vs. 59/Custom Hybrid

I got a poplar superstrat with a maple neck and rosewood board with the 59/c in it and I love it to death and can easily get brown sound stuff out of it AND other vintage style PAF tones. I've never found it too bright for that stuff but I do use a very loud and dark sounding amp. I totally recommend the 59/c for you, plus it's much more affordable and that brightness comes in handy when you want it too. It's easier to take it away than it is to add it in my opinion.
 
Re: Brobucker Vs. 59/Custom Hybrid

KramerShredder said:
Somewhat. In my experience the dc resistance affects how much output the pickup has. I know that that isn't completely true, but it does seem to be a rule of thumb you can go by. Let me know if I am thinking completely wrong. I also forgot to mention that I play 1 channel amps, so which pickup roles down better?
Click to expand...

depends on where you ask. Duncan seems to keep holding on to that DCR=OUTPUT concept for dear life, but it's just not the way to measure pickup output. which dovetails into:

KramerShredder said:
I noticed that the 78 felt pretty high output. Is that why?
Click to expand...

they key there is that it 'feels' like it has higher output. they kinda sorta suggest it's a medium output, but when doing some test/sample recording with it in the same guitar on the same amp settings into my DAW while playing the safe riff, the 78 (at +/- 9.0 DCR) weak peaking out higher than the IM1 (at +/- 15.0 DCR). so it does more than just 'feel' louder. I also have a 78 in a H/S/S with two Hot Rails and it fits in there and holds its own really nice... compared to a PG that has about the same DCR and was totally overpowered by that setup.

which also dovetails into:

blueman335 said:
Magnets are a big part of a PU's output. Don't leave that out of the formula.
Click to expand...

different magnets have different outputs, and they can even partially charge a magnet or degauss a magnet to have an effect on the magnet strength/output.

but there is also the wind and they type of wire. so you have a PG and a 78 which are both humbuckers and have about the same DCR, but the 78 'feels' louder and they don't have the same tone.

but then you have the whole line of the Custom model. the Custom, the Custom 5 and the Custom Custom. a ceramic mag, an A5 and an A2 respectively. yet all the DCR are right there together ( +/- 14.1 to 14.4), while they have very different tones and some would suggest different outputs.

for more of an idea, you can also look at all the specs at the DiMarzio site, where they actually have a # assigned for output and then cross-reference the DCR on those.

but let's face it, it's an old school Kramer out of Jersey. they came with JBs for a reason. lol! to get a more vintage 80s JB tone, you can throw a RCA5 in a current JB. for a nice blend, track down someone that can confirm the amount of charge the degaussed A5 gets in the antiquity JB and put one of those in there and I bet you'd dig that a lot. and blueman (above) is the cat that showed me that if an A2 isn't working out and you really like A5 but don't want to totally alter the overall tone, that the UOA5 is the ticket. swapping a mag is simple as dirt...if you can install your own pickup and set up the FR on that Baretta, you are more than qualified to swap a mag.


update: a disturbance in the force suggests that maybe an 80-85% charge (15-20% degaussed) might be a good range for what some pickup makers consider "aged".
 
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Re: Brobucker Vs. 59/Custom Hybrid

I have 3 Brobuckers... And, I'd say don't forget Duncan PATB-3. It is hell of a pickup, and I think it sorta sounds like a Brobucker with a bit more presence and and is a bit tighter. The looks may be a factor, yet I love that pickup! It'd be the one I would think of putting into a superstrat, not my TB Brobucker...

B ;)
 
Re: Brobucker Vs. 59/Custom Hybrid

TB C/59 vs. TB Brobucker vs. TB Whole Lotta Bridge vs. PATB-3!

That, indeed, is the question...

B :)
 
Re: Brobucker Vs. 59/Custom Hybrid

KramerShredder said:
Somewhat. In my experience the dc resistance affects how much output the pickup has. I know that that isn't completely true, but it does seem to be a rule of thumb you can go by. Let me know if I am thinking completely wrong. I also forgot to mention that I play 1 channel amps, so which pickup roles down better?
Click to expand...

Dimarzio Steve Morse bridge:

Output mV: 450
DC Resistance: 9.94 Kohm

Dimarzio Steve Morse neck:

Output mV: 250
DC Resistance: 21.00 Kohm



Guess which one works better for metal. :D
 
Re: Brobucker Vs. 59/Custom Hybrid

but let's face it, it's an old school Kramer out of Jersey. they came with JBs for a reason. lol! to get a more vintage 80s JB tone, you can throw a RCA5 in a current JB. for a nice blend, track down someone that can confirm the amount of charge the degaussed A5 gets in the antiquity JB and put one of those in there and I bet you'd dig that a lot. and blueman (above) is the cat that showed me that if an A2 isn't working out and you really like A5 but don't want to totally alter the overall tone, that the UOA5 is the ticket. swapping a mag is simple as dirt...if you can install your own pickup and set up the FR on that Baretta, you are more than qualified to swap a mag.
My problem with the JB is that it has a lot of mids. I know this is good for the type of music I play, but I already have a mid heavy amp and am driving it with a tube screamer. That combined with the mids of a JB makes the mids quack. I don't want a quack, I want a bark. Now with the JB I nail Ratt tone, but I'm not looking for Ratt tone. I would be concerened that the 59/Custom hybrid would have this same problem with as much mids as it has. It has an 8 on the tone chart, and thats more than the JB.

I just wasn't impressed enough with the 78 to try and change the magnet on it.

Thanks for the sugestions dr.barlo. I'll have to look into the Whole Lotta Humbucker.
Click to expand...
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