Budget VS Boutique

[Davidandrew]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

I think the reason people buy boutique is because they dont know how to obtain the tone of a particular amp with out having that amp. I played through a Fender twin reverb for a long time and honestly feel I could get close to any sound through that amp but that does not mean it is an east task trying to get a matchless, bogner or bad cat tone out of a Fender twin is not an easy task you may spend just as much after you obtain the correct pedals, speakers, tubes, pups, and any other mods as just buying the amp you are trying mimic and you will definitely save alot of time and frustration.

I have went through tons of crap gear that I was extremely happy playing when I had it but as I grew as a musician so did my ear for tone. I think its a progression. I didnt go from peavey bandit - badcat in a month I slowly improved my tone through years of playing different amps. To be honest when I got a twin reverb I thought what amp could ever be better than this? alot of people still feel this way but then I ran into a badcat and I remember thinking oh my jesus I've never heard an amp like this. I tried to obtain that ton from my fender but then figured whats the point I can just go an buy it and explore a whole new world of opportunity instead of buying gear to sound like other gear now I am buying gear to create new tones !!! Man I'm excited just thinking about it !!!!!

 

[rumblebox]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

i wont claim that my classic 50 is the best sounding amp ever, BUT i bought it for $425 in 99.9% perfect condition and did a couple of small mods. now i wouldnt trade it for a lot of amps that cost 6x the price.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

i wont claim that my classic 50 is the best sounding amp ever, BUT i bought it for $425 in 99.9% perfect condition and did a couple of small mods. now i wouldnt trade it for a lot of amps that cost 6x the price.

What mods did you do to it? How did they affect its tone? Just curious as I used to gig a tweed Classic 50 and mostly hated it for what I needed. Was just too dark for me. I was playing country and classic rock with it at the time and it just didn't inspire me in either the cleans or the dirt. Though the OD was better than the cleans for sure. Ended-up upgrading to an H&K Triamp Mk I and was VERY happy.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

I think the reason people buy boutique is because they dont know how to obtain the tone of a particular amp with out having that amp.

That's a pretty silly generalization, really. There are plenty of amps out there that have features or modded circuits that just aren't available out-of-the-box elsewhere.

For example, my 65 Memphis is a 6V6 amp with an EF86 in the preamp - fairly unusual. Add in the bump feature, and you have a pretty unique amp. Sure, I could hit a Deluxe with a boost to imitate the "bump", but I still wouldn't get the chime and feel of that EF86 preamp. I could talk about their unique "master voltage" master volume stuff too. Sometimes "boutique" builders just offer really unique stuff. That said, I still recommend buying used!

There are definitely guys out there that buy boutique stuff as a status symbol, but there are also people that buy them because they do something very specific that helps them get the tone they want.

 

[rumblebox]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

What mods did you do to it? How did they affect its tone? Just curious as I used to gig a tweed Classic 50 and mostly hated it for what I needed. Was just too dark for me. I was playing country and classic rock with it at the time and it just didn't inspire me in either the cleans or the dirt. Though the OD was better than the cleans for sure. Ended-up upgrading to an H&K Triamp Mk I and was VERY happy.

i found the OD channel to be ice-picky and harsh compared to the clean channel, therefore could not use the same EQ settings and switch between channels. so i replaced the OD cap (like 470pf) with an 820pf. it smoothed out the OD channel significantly and actually made it useful with the same EQ settings as the clean channel. so now i can actually get good sounds from the lead channel by itself instead of having to turn down the gain to like 3 and run the bad monkey through it. and this is still with crappy mesa power tubes.

 

[Davidandrew]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

That's a pretty silly generalization, really. There are plenty of amps out there that have features or modded circuits that just aren't available out-of-the-box elsewhere.

For example, my 65 Memphis is a 6V6 amp with an EF86 in the preamp - fairly unusual. Add in the bump feature, and you have a pretty unique amp. Sure, I could hit a Deluxe with a boost to imitate the "bump", but I still wouldn't get the chime and feel of that EF86 preamp. I could talk about their unique "master voltage" master volume stuff too. Sometimes "boutique" builders just offer really unique stuff. That said, I still recommend buying used!

There are definitely guys out there that buy boutique stuff as a status symbol, but there are also people that buy them because they do something very specific that helps them get the tone they want.

I guess in retrospec I was only really refering to people who buy boutique because they want a unique tone that only a boutique amp can give them. I do agree some people just buy **** cause they want to look badass

 

[SAVAGE DISTORTION]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

Are Mesa's still booteek? :dunno:

To me? yes! why? cause i cant afford the MKIV!:biglaugh:

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

I'm looking for tones I've never heard from any amp I've played including several used boutique models. I go the GC to buy strings and to audition keyboards and have no interest in off the shelf amps. I suspect that the tone in my head is somewhere between Fender Tweed and Black Face tones (please forgive me, High Gain Guys) and have recently acquired the DIY bug ... so that will be the means by which I pursue it.

I am not wealthy but my kids are almost self-reliant so I am to the point where I can be somewhat self indulgent without regret. I will buy (or more likely spend to build) the best I can afford and I don't care who thinks I don't deserve it based upon my skill level as a player.

Scott said something about ear sex and I totally understand that. I have a tube amp now that I thought was the greatest thing ever when I purchased it after having played solid state for twenty years. Some might argue that my tastes have changed but I know my hearing has improved, and that amp now sounds stiff and lifeless. I have to have something better ..... way better.

Boutique for me.

 

[some_dude]

There was a point where my entire rig was boutique, but now it's back to off the shelf stuff.

In my case the tones I was chasing (70s rock) were no longer being produced, and many times the vintage originals were selling for prices I couldn't afford. Boutique in my case was the cheaper option, more reliable option.

I've since gravitated back to high gain rock tones, and in the process I've moved back to more commonly available gear. Vintage inspired gear is cool, but it frequently doesn't play well with modern gear or FX loops.

 

[AudioWonderland]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

I think a swing in attitudes is starting to gain momentum. I hear more and more guys say things like, "I don't hear that much of a difference between boutique item A and production item B" Given the economic problems the last few years guys were forced like never before to look harder at their purchases and consider less expensive options and are starting to wonder if that all that extra coin is really worth it.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

Tone is tone. I don't care if it's expensive or cheap. I've owned things like a Crate V32 Palomino, my current Vox AC15 and I've owned amps by guys like Bogner, Fargen and Bad Cat. I've played through (and enjoyed) an old bandmates Peavey Classic 30. No amp does everything. Boutique stuff is usually point-to-point so it's easier to service, but I've seen lots of cheap amps get beat into the ground and last. My current amp right now is a Fender Vibrolux Reverb. Why? It's got sentimental value, it has great cleans and it's built like there's no tomorrow. I'm looking at adding a P-T-P Fender 5e3 RI as a second amp. Could I buy the boutique stuff? Sure, but sometimes I just really like Fender stuff. You like what you like; you shouldn't go by a designation like "boutique" or a pricetag to justify it.

 

[rumblebox]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

Tone is tone. I don't care if it's expensive or cheap. I've owned things like a Crate V32 Palomino, my current Vox AC15 and I've owned amps by guys like Bogner, Fargen and Bad Cat. I've played through (and enjoyed) an old bandmates Peavey Classic 30. No amp does everything. Boutique stuff is usually point-to-point so it's easier to service, but I've seen lots of cheap amps get beat into the ground and last. My current amp right now is a Fender Vibrolux Reverb. Why? It's got sentimental value, it has great cleans and it's built like there's no tomorrow. I'm looking at adding a P-T-P Fender 5e3 RI as a second amp. Could I buy the boutique stuff? Sure, but sometimes I just really like Fender stuff. You like what you like; you shouldn't go by a designation like "boutique" or a pricetag to justify it.

THIS

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

That's a pretty silly generalization, really. There are plenty of amps out there that have features or modded circuits that just aren't available out-of-the-box elsewhere.

For example, my 65 Memphis is a 6V6 amp with an EF86 in the preamp - fairly unusual. Add in the bump feature, and you have a pretty unique amp. Sure, I could hit a Deluxe with a boost to imitate the "bump", but I still wouldn't get the chime and feel of that EF86 preamp. I could talk about their unique "master voltage" master volume stuff too. Sometimes "boutique" builders just offer really unique stuff. That said, I still recommend buying used!

There are definitely guys out there that buy boutique stuff as a status symbol, but there are also people that buy them because they do something very specific that helps them get the tone they want.

65 Amps is definitely one of those rare manufacturers that take chances and yet still seem to make amazing amps. Most boutique amp designers seem to build off of common circuits and use premium components. FWIW, I've played the Londons and I'd love to play the more recent stuff like your amp.

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

I guess i was lucky. As a teenager in the 1970s I would look at my amps and wish for some small tweak or another, and I knew people out there could do such things for me but it would cost me. I knew if i knew what i was doing it would probably be quite easy to make the changes i wished for.

Well, a life of being interested in electronics and music eventually got me to a place where I can, and do, build tube stuff from scratch. The last couple of decades have seen me collecting high-quality parts for my own projects, so i suppose inadvertantly i now build my own 'boutique' gear. The nice thing is that i can actually improve on the features of many amps, for examply putting tremolo into my Matchless clone, along with Triode/Pentode switches. And i can do this stuff for less or the same money than buying a cheap Chinese amp. Plus of course i can design an amp from scratch, meaning i have full control over it's size, shape, layout, appearance and functionality.

And in the process, i've learnt how to listen and hear better, which has led to building better and using better parts. That spiral would be prohibitively expensive if i wasn't able to build, upgrade and modify stuff. I can't recommend learning to build stuff enough ... it's the best way to get exactly what you want, at any level you want, when buying something like that is beyond the scope of most average players.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

I guess i was lucky. As a teenager in the 1970s I would look at my amps and wish for some small tweak or another, and I knew people out there could do such things for me but it would cost me. I knew if i knew what i was doing it would probably be quite easy to make the changes i wished for.

Well, a life of being interested in electronics and music eventually got me to a place where I can, and do, build tube stuff from scratch. The last couple of decades have seen me collecting high-quality parts for my own projects, so i suppose inadvertantly i now build my own 'boutique' gear. The nice thing is that i can actually improve on the features of many amps, for examply putting tremolo into my Matchless clone, along with Triode/Pentode switches. And i can do this stuff for less or the same money than buying a cheap Chinese amp. Plus of course i can design an amp from scratch, meaning i have full control over it's size, shape, layout, appearance and functionality.

And in the process, i've learnt how to listen and hear better, which has led to building better and using better parts. That spiral would be prohibitively expensive if i wasn't able to build, upgrade and modify stuff. I can't recommend learning to build stuff enough ... it's the best way to get exactly what you want, at any level you want, when buying something like that is beyond the scope of most average players.

I have been wanting to build amps, and am starting with pedals right now. Do you know of any places where I can start? I'd also love to know how to design amps and pedals, and I am very willing to take the time to learn.

 

[aleclee]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

I have been wanting to build amps, and am starting with pedals right now. Do you know of any places where I can start? I'd also love to know how to design amps and pedals, and I am very willing to take the time to learn.

BYOC for pedals, AX84 for amps.

Though I'm a "whatever works" kinda guy, booteek has been my bag more often than not. My current "boutique" rig has no tubes and a lot of people (most with no hands on experience with one) criticize about not wanting to spend time tweaking presets. What I find ironic about that attitude is that they are often willing to run the racks to find an amp, swap tubes/speakers and mod circuitry but punching some buttons and turning knobs is way too much effort.

My current B-rig plan is to replace my modded HRDX with a blackstar id60. The id60 is less a one trick pony than the Fender and helps me eliminate dependence on glowing bottles. If my budget demanded it, I could deal with a budget rig but I have the scratch and (my wife and) I understand that hobbies are often expensive. It's not like golf, boating, or skiing doesn't set one back a wad of cash each season.

 

[jimijames]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

I can't recommend learning to build stuff enough ... it's the best way to get exactly what you want, at any level you want, when buying something like that is beyond the scope of most average players.

I'm not at the level where I can understand the theory yet, but there's enough good info out there that you can get 99% there. Case in point, I can't design diddly squat but I was able to put together most of my pedal board (specifically the fuzz, marshall bluesbreaker clone, tremolo, and wah which is 4/6 of the board), and my amp (Marshall 1974x lite clone) for less than $600. It's one of those "death by a thousand cuts" cases, but usually you can recoup most of your investment in the DIY stuff (with the exception of guitars). And it's way cheaper and sounds all kinds of awesome.

 

[erksin]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

IMO you can find high quality at any price point.

There is certainly a level of diminishing returns when buying a boutique amp - not only financially because the resale value on them sucks balls, but unless you are chasing a VERY specific feature set or simply must have certain components there are simply not worth the expense. I appreciate craftsmanship, I appreciate the fact that many of them are instruments unto themselves, but beauty is so much in the eye of the beholder that you better fricking LOVE that amp out of the box and never sell it or you're in for a big hit when it comes time to flip it.

IMO the best bang for the buck is still to buy vintage amps - they are all hand-built like most of the boutiques, use high quality components like the boutiques, and in many cases are the inspiration for the boutiques in the first place. Do your homework, know what you are buying, know what should be there when looking at photos, etc - and you'll save yourself hundreds of dollars. Not only that, but in most cases they actually go up in value if there is a collector market for them.

 

[macki]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

For me, the reason I got a boutique amp is that I like to support small businesses when I can (I am a small biz owner myself).

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Budget VS Boutique

its a sad reflection on our current society based on mass production and mass consumption that the way that all regular amps used to be made (such as fenders. marshalls, voxes etc) is now considered "boutique quality". For example, the standard pine cabinet is now considered boutique and particle board is now par for the course. PCB's of course are fine and a good way of building an amp, but most companies cut costs on every single item in the construction of amps, and so most current pcb's are thin and unreliable, difficult to work on when they go wrong and hard wired to cheap plastic jacks and pots.
So to answer the OP's question re: boutique or budget, its difficlut to answer because the amps i like are not really "boutique", but they are constructed using solid pine cabs , PTP wiring, chunky transformers and off board high quality pots. I.e. vintage style amps. While this kind of construction is considered boutique by today's standards, the amps themselves are from regular companies like fender, marshall, musicman or vox. Just normal working musician's gear.
The thing about the amp market these days is no so much that there is a big increase in boutique style amps on the market, its just that people buy less amps of this kind of build quality because manufacturers have found ways of cutting costs in both labour, componentry and construction which has since become the norm for consumers. The upside is of course that you can get much more "bang for buck" than was possible in the past.
IN the end none of this matters much, cos the best players still sound the best. Its not about the gear.