Bugera Quality ?

[treyhaislip]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

i'd never buy an asian-made musical product. i have enough bad experiences, personally, and the constant quality issues i read about are enough justification. elitist or not, i like to pay for quality.

Just curious, would you lump the Japanese musical products in with the poor quality Asian-made? The Japanese make some really good high-quality instruments. Now, I will still take my American strat over any Japanese strat–I am not saying the Asian-made is superior, just you can't lump all of them together as crap. My dad has a Korean Ibanez prestige that is one awesome guitar.

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

some people think you need USA Made everything for it to be good.

Their loss...

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

Exactly, the bugera was not a terrible sounding amp just not my style.. it was super tight and I like a bit of a looser sounding amp. The China made Voxes sound really nice too if you dig the Vox sound. I went with the Mesa just because of it's weight an size and the power of it for its size. Still cost me a bit but that is what Financing is for

Sorry to hear it did'nt work out for you but I'm glad you ended up with the Mesa

Personally, I would'nt go for a 6262 either. It's very modern-voiced & over-tight/compressed, but that's also what a lot of folk like it for. My 333XL has a looser, grainier, fatter, warmer feel to it like a souped up JCM 800 crossed with a Slo. Still has a TON of distortion but it's darker, more open & the cleans are sparkly & awesome...I think you'd have been a lot happier trying one of these.

As for the asian/reliability issue...all I can say is this thing is built like a tank & has never once crapped out on me since I took it out of it's box (which incidentally, had just travelled 8,500 miles, courtesy of USPS) ...& unlike most of the folk chipping in on their lack of "reliability" & poor build/component quality.. I've actually owned one for over a year without issue.

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

lol I would have told you not to get that amp had I known what it was a clone of. I would never suggest to someone that plays the kind of music we do to get a 5150, it's pretty much the polar opposite of metal tones.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

Sorry to hear it did'nt work out for you but I'm glad you ended up with the Mesa

Personally, I would'nt go for a 6262 either. It's very modern-voiced & over-tight/compressed, but that's also what a lot of folk like it for. My 333XL has a looser, grainier, fatter, warmer feel to it like a souped up JCM 800 crossed with a Slo. Still has a TON of distortion but it's darker, more open & the cleans are sparkly & awesome...I think you'd have been a lot happier trying one of these.

As for the asian/reliability issue...all I can say is this thing is built like a tank & has never once crapped out on me since I took it out of it's box (which incidentally, had just travelled 8,500 miles, courtesy of USPS) ...& unlike most of the folk chipping in on their lack of "reliability" & poor build/component quality.. I've actually owned one for over a year without issue.

Like I said, I was 50/50 for the quality of Bugeras. I returned a 333XL...not to be argumentative, but I definitely would not say it was built like a tank. My 333XL had a really bad rattle that I couldn't figure out. The handle cap broke (typical of some amps) and the construction just screamed cheap. The tone was great–I loved having 3 independent channels, it just seemed really cheap. I didn't have any problems with my V22--would eventually like to get another one someday. And for the price, they are a great value for the tone you get.

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

lol I would have told you not to get that amp had I known what it was a clone of. I would never suggest to someone that plays the kind of music we do to get a 5150, it's pretty much the polar opposite of metal tones.

Yeah I thought I could make it work but nope :34:

On the other hand it got me to finally buy a 5:50 which honestly is AMAZING... I rehearsed with it last night and for once my Big Muff cut through! and the contour knob made this little light combo sound like a 4x12.. no joke my brother was using a JCM DSL with 4x12 and i had more thump and bass then his amp. Well worth the 1200 bucks

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

Like I said, I was 50/50 for the quality of Bugeras. I returned a 333XL...not to be argumentative, but I definitely would not say it was built like a tank. My 333XL had a really bad rattle that I couldn't figure out. The handle cap broke (typical of some amps) and the construction just screamed cheap. The tone was great–I loved having 3 independent channels, it just seemed really cheap. I didn't have any problems with my V22--would eventually like to get another one someday. And for the price, they are a great value for the tone you get.

Yeah, well as I mentioned before.. Bugera re-vamped things around 2010-11. That included over-all build quality & aesthetics.



Your're probably taking about the old (Pre-2010) model which apparently did have more of a "budget" feel to it..








While I have the newer (2012) model which does'nt feel cheap to me at all.




Quality tolex, leather handle, plywood headshell (vs. MDF before)...you can tell the newer ones by the orange lights (used to be blue).

..as I said mine travelled 8500 miles in it's retail cardboard box & is none the worse for wear. No rattles/hisses/hums or noise of any sort





Really does'nt seem all that different from one of these build-wise tbh..

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

I don't remember the year, but my 333XL Combo I haven't had it in a while--so I'll just say it was probably a pre-2010/2011. But when I hear an amp is built like a tank, I think of an old Fender Bassman. lol

 

[Rodney Gene]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

Really does'nt seem all that different from one of these build-wise tbh..

View attachment 47531

I think you would notice a great deal after opening it up however.

I am old enough and been in the music gig long enough to remember when Behringer was made in Germany and made actual clones of quality gear.
I ordered my first Behringer German mixer from a small catalog I received from a new family owned start up company called Musicians Friend.
I suspect the mixer is still in use (recorded my first record with it)

What I know today is that based on their track record, if Behringer made planes, I wouldn't trust a life to them for any price. I wonder how many would for for lower ticket price?
Reliability is so much more than the sum of the parts.

Sometimes for some reason, a piece of Behringer gear (that gets used daily) doesn't break down. That is a big win for the average person but too big of a risk if your family depends on it.
The best thing about the company is how long they have been ion business. Their reputation is clear and it will take a great deal more than a few years of quality adjustments to change the perception.

Respect, RG

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

...and yet they're still in business...doing just great.

Not Saying Behringer is known for quality, but I've owned a few of their stompboxs & they all worked/sounded fine..none "broke when I stepped on it". Yeah, I know "cheap ****, they all break down" well..mine did'nt & there are a lot of others out there who've had no problem with their's either. In most cases, the ones bashing Beheringer/Bugera are the ones who've never owned their products or had much to do with them. (Look at this thread as a general reference).

The fact is Behringer's business policies may not be well regarded ...especially by the competition. If they're selling your over-priced $2000 heads for $500 I guess that would stir things up. Also, the fact that they manufacture in China...well you don't hear much good about anything that comes out of China & I'm not sure that's based solely on quality. (pretty sure it's not , actually). Peavey's break down, Mesa's break down, Marshall's break down, H&K's do (I know.. I owned one...I *could* bash them all day based on that ONE experience). The components in 'high end' amps are all 99% Chinese anyway.

The question that came up earlier was about build quality, when I posted pics that made it evident there really was'nt much difference in build quality compared with a $2000 head...it then shifted to what was under the hood. My guess is there won't be much difference there either. Mesa/Marshall/Fenders/Vox's etc..they all come stock with chinese tubes, so they obviously don't splurge on their components. The biggest difference by far is price.

 

[jon the art guy]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

Well, I wouldn't say they're on par, buildwise, with a top-end amp that they're emulating, but I agree with your sentiment for sure. The musical gear market is so..cultish? and elitist? I dunno what an economist or market specialist would call that. What I do know is it's what's kept a company who made cheap bolt-neck guitars with single pickups in business for a looooong time. Another company who makes expensive guitars that are prone to the headstock snapping off have a fiercely loyal fanbase who're willing to tell you 50 reasons why it doesn't matter...mystical powers out of overdrive pedals and fuzz pedals enough to make a market to a headstand and pay out the butt for them...

I mean, the list goes on and on as to the reasons why the biggest names in the business should logically not be bought until they lower their prices.

They won't, and they will never need to. Everything's got it's place, but it never is able to sway enough of a buying base away from the masters to make a dent in their models.

It's weird. Does it work that way for anything else? Sort of like that with cars, until it comes down to the test drive. Someone could play a Behringer amp, get the sound they wanted, and still refuse to buy it on principle.

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

If Behringer could charge Mesa/Marshall/Fender/Vox prices, they would. Or vice versa - if the big boys could build quality amps that cheap, they would. But they don't because their products aren't worth that kind of money. They are inferior, and no matter how many times you say that yours don't break that will still be true.

Or how about this - I don't like supporting companies that blatantly steal IP from other companies. I save up and give my money to the people that do R&D to make the newest and bestest product that Behringer can go and clone without investing any of their own R&D money. If everyone buys Bugera, who's going to keep innovating?

And yeah, Mesas and Peavys break down. But not with the frequency of Bugera amps.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

If Behringer could charge Mesa/Marshall/Fender/Vox prices, they would. Or vice versa - if the big boys could build quality amps that cheap, they would.

Not really & not really on both counts.

PuBut they don't because their products aren't worth that kind of money. They are inferior, and no matter how many times you say that yours don't break that will still be true.

Coming from someone who's never owned or even played one. Cuz you say it...it must be true.

Or how about this - I don't like supporting companies that blatantly steal IP from other companies. I save up and give my money to the people that do R&D to make the newest and bestest product that Behringer can go and clone without investing any of their own R&D money. If everyone buys Bugera, who's going to keep innovating?

Lol, The Infinium thing is the biggest step forward in amp tech since cascading gain stages...& no we're not talking about cathode biasing here.

And yeah, Mesas and Peavys break down. But not with the frequency of Bugera amps.

MIght have been true in the past when they had teething trouble. It is'nt anymore.

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

You make quite a few assumptions - namely that I've not owned or played a Bugera and that the Infinium technology is unique to Bugera. I've seen auto-biasing circuits before Bugera introduced it on their models - I distinctly recall Fender using similar technology on amps long before Bugera, and I'm sure they weren't the first. Besides, even if the infinium tech was their own product, one innovation doesn't make up for a product line built on other people's work. I don't see how it's not theft.

I have played plenty of bugera amps. None have left me wanting to own one unless it would never move, and I gig all of my stuff.

My stance against companies like Bugera has little to do with tone. They sound fine, but that's not the point. I refuse to support musical instrument companies that use manufacturing practice that I do not support. If other people can't afford to do that, that's fine. But when I can I prefer to give my money to a company that deserves it.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

You make quite a few assumptions - namely that I've not owned or played a Bugera and that the Infinium technology is unique to Bugera. I've seen auto-biasing circuits before Bugera introduced it on their models - I distinctly recall Fender using similar technology on amps long before Bugera, and I'm sure they weren't the first. Besides, even if the infinium tech was their own product, one innovation doesn't make up for a product line built on other people's work. I don't see how it's not theft.

I have played plenty of bugera amps. None have left me wanting to own one unless it would never move, and I gig all of my stuff.

My stance against companies like Bugera has little to do with tone. They sound fine, but that's not the point. I refuse to support musical instrument companies that use manufacturing practice that I do not support. If other people can't afford to do that, that's fine. But when I can I prefer to give my money to a company that deserves it.

Look your opinions as you said have to do with principles you hold. Which is fine. Personally my feeling on that is that every amp out there today is a clone of either a Fender or Marshall (& the first Marshall's were Fender clones). The 333XL is based on a Peavey JSX ..but to my ears it sounds better/Different (I've had the opportunity to A/B them through the same cab). But then as you said "tone" is'nt your criteria.

To my knowledge there's no precedent for the Infinium technology....certainkly not on a production model from any of the big companies. But hey, if you like you can bash Orange for blatantly ripping it off already. (check out their *new* "Divo"technology...).

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

Look your opinions as you said have to do with principles you hold. Which is fine. Personally my feeling on that is that every amp out there today is a clone of either a Fender or Marshall (& the first Marshall's were Fender clones). The 333XL is based on a Peavey JSX ..but to my ears it sounds better/Different (I've had the opportunity to A/B them through the same cab). But then as you said "tone" is'nt your criteria.

To my knowledge there's no precedent for the Infinium technology....certainly not on a production model from any of the big companies. But hey, if you like you can bash Orange for blatantly ripping it off already. (check out their *new* "Divo"technology...).

The only reason tone isn't my criteria is that I've never played a Bugera that made me want to own one.

There's a huge difference between something having Marshall/Fender/Vox/etc roots and BLATANTLY ripping off everything about the original amp, down to the cosmetics. They capitalize on the reputation of another amp company and don't pay any royalties. I don't understand how people think that's OK.

Well just because there's no precedent for the Infinium tech that you know of doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And the Orange unit doesn't look to me like anything more than a digital Bias King, FWIW.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

The only reason tone isn't my criteria is that I've never played a Bugera that made me want to own one.

Cool, so your tastes are different.

There's a huge difference between something having Marshall/Fender/Vox/etc roots and BLATANTLY ripping off everything about the original amp, down to the cosmetics. They capitalize on the reputation of another amp company and don't pay any royalties. I don't understand how people think that's OK.

It's not a blatant rip-off..the circuits are modded. And The amps your talking about are a lot closer to each other circuit-wise than just sharing roots. The First Marshall was by your standards a Fender Bassman "rip-off"

Well just because there's no precedent for the Infinium tech that you know of doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Well, if You could find precedent & post it that would be great. Everything's on the internet these days...

And the Orange unit doesn't look to me like anything more than a digital Bias King, FWIW.

It's not a Digital Bias King & it's everything the Infinum is... Down to a T. (something tells me your you're not going to be outraged though)

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

Please explain to me how this is not a rip off of this. It's absolutely a blatant rip off. They're using the rep that Mesa built around the Mark IV for nearly 20 years to sell that amp. Theft, plain and simple.

I realize that both Marshall and Mesa, among others, started off cloning a Fender. But look at their current amps - are they anything like Fender?

You're right, I wouldn't be outraged if Orange borrowed from the Infinium tech to make that new device. You know why? Because they don't base their whole product line on other people's work.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

Well, they seem to have entered the US market with that amp finally. Despite the umpteen patent infringement suits etc that Mesa had slapped them with. Obviously the circuits are different enough to warrant their entry. They don't make any bones about it being their answer to a Mark IV, but I guess it's still different enough for them to have won their case.

Splawn's are Marshall clones, Slo's were based on something or the other, I forget. The whole amp & pedal market is based on ripping off everyone else's designs. If it's a "boutique" amp - everyone just marvels at how ''close it sounds'' to this or that classic amp. ''Boutique'' Pedal makers have been known to paint over "chinese knock-offs" & mark their 'designs' up 500%...

 

[Rodney Gene]

Re: Bugera Quality ?

...and yet they're still in business...doing just great...

They have never done great, they have done profitable. They make gear cheaply and sell gear cheaply. That's a big market, not a great market. They have never been a great company, an integral company, an innovative nor a reputable company. Its known as disposable gear (disposable market, planned obsolescence) as it has such little re-sale value. That is not an industry secret or elitism. They create diversity in the pricing structure and help increase the value of better made gear. Quality companies benefit from the presence of Behringer and other disposal gear companies.

The question that came up earlier was about build quality, when I posted pics that made it evident there really was'nt much difference in build quality compared with a $2000 head...it then shifted to what was under the hood. My guess is there won't be much difference there either. they all come stock with chinese tubes, so they obviously don't splurge on their components. The biggest difference by far is price.b

This is very incomplete. It sounds like you are genuine in your belief, but it is in error and certainly not true of component/assembly quality. Mesa/Marshall/Fenders/Vox's etc.. have no concerns over Behringer taking any of their market in the long run. The radical price contrast is good for them and Behringer reliability and reputation speaks loudly enough for everybody. Behringer quality has nothing to do with country of origin, which has been discussed ad nauseam. I don't bash gear or country and I think anything can be useful and even great in the right context. My criteria for 'quality' has comes from my own experiences and needs as a professional musician and Behringer has not qualified for me for many years. Copyright stealing aside. (Lawsuits are based on rights and a violation of rights, not a cash-cow.) But that is just me. If Behringer fits your own personal standards of quality and has an ethics you are willing to support, that is cool. Only you know what works for you and what you like and I can respect that. Enjoy and rock on. (BTW, nothing outlasts Peavey...)