cab construction - how much does it matter?

drew_half_empty

drew_half_empty

Looking for Real Life
well i finally got the money for another 4x12, and my original plan was just to get the same traditional avatar cab with g12h30's or something, but i'm wondering if i should just spend the money on another one of those or sell the one i have & upgrade both of em

so the 3 types i'm looking at are the avatar traditional, the marshall style avatar, and ampeg v4 4x12's cause they're cheap as hell, but the last 2 would be the most expensive so, does cab construction really have that much to do with sound or is it just a small difference most people can't hear? The only 2 different cabs i've heard with the same speakers & head was a marshall 1960 with v30's and a mesa slant front with the same, and i could tell a difference but the mesa was also on casters so that may have had something to do with it

oh and if anyone could tell me how each would sound in comparison to the others that'd be awesome


thanks
 
Re: cab construction - how much does it matter?

you will hear large sound differences in cabs with different volume, with vs without casters, different speakers (includes variations in size and #), slant vs straight cabs and cabs that have some sort of bass port/open back construction.

you will hear smaller differences in thickness, quality of wood and kind of wood used.

construction quality doesnt mess with the sound much unless the cab starts falling apart ect.
 
Re: cab construction - how much does it matter?

ksmith63 said:
you will hear large sound differences in cabs with different volume, with vs without casters, different speakers (includes variations in size and #), slant vs straight cabs and cabs that have some sort of bass port/open back construction.

you will hear smaller differences in thickness, quality of wood and kind of wood used.

construction quality doesnt mess with the sound much unless the cab starts falling apart ect.
Click to expand...

+1 on all counts except construction quality matters too. The way the cab vibrates and pushes air can be affected by construction quality.
 
Re: cab construction - how much does it matter?

That's probably why lots of folks lay them on their sides (straight cabs) when playing?
 
Re: cab construction - how much does it matter?

Casters are no different that legs on a stereo speaker cabinet. Casters on or off, one has a different sound than the other. Try both and see what you like.

A 4x12 is no different than any other speaker cabinet, so make sure all the nuts and bolts are tight, you have a good seal around the speaker baskets, and that the front of the cabinet is sealed. Use a good quality caulk if need be or gaskets to seal.

All of these things will have an effect of the sound of the speaker.
 
Re: cab construction - how much does it matter?

Think about holding on to your present cab and tuning it...

All the previous advise is correct but they are all things that you can work with to improve the cab you have.

Box construction...VERY important! Any vibration is a frequency that your cab is not projecting. With this in mind, stiffen your cab by glueing in triangular braces along all of the joints (2" x 2" x 3/4" plywood works great). you may even need to brace the back wall of the cab to keep it from vibrating. The whole idea here is to make the cab as acoustically "dead" as you can.

Box volume...this determines the resonant frequency of the box. A larger box will sound more "boomy" while a small box may choke off the bass response. Sealed guitar enclosures are always larger than what the "Thiele-Small" (TS) parameter calculations dictate. The TS parameters are typically used to set up a box so that the speaker(s) has a linear response...you don't want a linear response from a 4 x 12 cab! You can adjust the box volume pretty easily by temporarily attaching 2x4s (18" long or so) inside you cab until the cab resonates the way you want it to. This will take some time and should be done at "performance" volume. With drastic changes in volume, you will hear the midrange peak shift quite a bit and the bass tighten (or loosen).

One thing to keep in mind...straight cabs and the bottom speakers in angled cabs get a lot of back wave cancellation off of the back wall of the cab. Parts Express sells deflection mats that glue to the back wall of the cab, directly behind each speaker that can drastically change (improve) the mids and highs that you hear. Acoustical batting can also help.

the best part about all of this is that you can undo any of these suggestions with the exception of the cab bracing. You will actually hear the difference between speakers to a greater degree than you heard before.

Experiment! Take a ****ing chance! There might be some magic in that box!
 
Re: cab construction - how much does it matter?

Yngwiestein said:
+1 on all counts except construction quality matters too. The way the cab vibrates and pushes air can be affected by construction quality.
Click to expand...

guitar speakers usually move less than 1mm so the amount of 'air' being pushed really doesnt matter much. For bass + p.a. stuff with speakers haveing a high Blmax this will make a difference. this can also cause the baffle to flex if it isnt braced right.


cabinets with rubber feet will use the floor they are sitting on as a way of projecting bass. the low end vibrations work to the floor. Casters limit this and therefore will somewhat isolate the tone coming from the speakers/cabinet.
 
Re: cab construction - how much does it matter?

^ that's really great advice glassman, i vote we vault it

the cab volume is actually my main concern though. My avatar is probably the thinnest 4x12 I've seen, it's built more or less like those fender 4x12's. The marshall style avatar is 2" deeper with thicker wood and the ampeg is even bigger than that with even better wood.

I also don't wanna rip out the insulation in my cab now to experiment in case i wanna sell it, i mean yeah i could probably squeeze a bit more low end out of it if i spent some time/money on it, but I "grew up" on silverface bassmans so i'm kind of a low end junky, and getting vintage ampeg 4x12s that were designed to work with bass or guitar in conjunction with their v4/v4b heads, which were more or less half an SVT... it just sounds like a good idea. Good investment, at that. I'm gonna be using these cabs for a long, long time, you know?
 
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Re: cab construction - how much does it matter?

I built a Fender style 4x12 for a buddy of mine about 10 years ago and it had massive bass response! I did brace the crap out of it and poured 2" of concrete in the bottom. The box had so much mass that when I hit a low E (or a D on his guitar) there was no vibration at all in the box. He, incidentally, drove it with a hot-rodded silver face Bassman that I had built for him.
 
Re: cab construction - how much does it matter?

It made it terribly heavy...but I filled it up to the bottom of the speaker holes. Try setting a couple of paver bricks in there just for kicks...see what the extra mass gets you.
 
Re: cab construction - how much does it matter?

Avatar cabs are not that stout, but you can add some "beef" to them by using corner braces. This will improve the cabinet, and not hamper your ability to sell it.
 
Re: cab construction - how much does it matter?

Ayrton said:
Avatar cabs are not that stout, but you can add some "beef" to them by using corner braces. This will improve the cabinet, and not hamper your ability to sell it.
Click to expand...

is this the case with all avatars or just the traditional ones?

from what i understand the vintage ones are basically reproductions of the old bluesbreaker cabs. Those are pretty stout, aren't they?
 
Re: cab construction - how much does it matter?

2" of concrete? really...adding the mass just improves the connection with the bass response and the floor. you could have poured the concrete slab and set it on top of the cabinet for the same effect.
 
Re: cab construction - how much does it matter?

drew_half_empty said:
is this the case with all avatars or just the traditional ones?

from what i understand the vintage ones are basically reproductions of the old bluesbreaker cabs. Those are pretty stout, aren't they?
Click to expand...

I can't say what exact models I looked at, just that they were not built that solid. I used to build high end stereo cabinets for people, and I know what to look for. I have to say I am disappointed with most modern cabinets I look at today.

I will end up just building the 2x12 I want myself.
 
Re: cab construction - how much does it matter?

In general the lighter Marshalls with the Birch construction sound best for celestions, and open back cabinets sound best for US made Jensens.
I have a Massively overbuilt 60's Peavay cabinet that weighs a ton, and I love that for my EV12l's. You need a froklift to move it however.
 
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