Cab upgrade

[DeadandBuried]

I have been playing in a new band for a while now and usually the gigs we play are headline shows which require us to supply the guitar cabs.

Currently I'm using a Marshall 4x12 with 2 V30's and 2 G12T-75's in an X-formation (top left and bottom right 75's, top right and bottom left V30's). Whilst this little mod has made the cab sound a bit brighter I think its the wood and general build of Marshall's that make it a bit too farty, flubby and you lose a lot of clarity.

I'm playing a 6505+ head and use a Maxon OD808 currently to try to give it more punch and power. Its decent but I still think it lacks that "chunk". We play in drop b and I'm using a LP studio with 12-56's.

The other guitarist uses a Line 6 Pod Pro into a Laney Ironheart for his pre-amp and an Orange PPC412 and I notice his sound is a bit more tighter, punchier and cuts through a lot more. I've run my 6505+ through his cab a few times and its pretty good.

So I could just get another Orange or should I get something like a Mesa 4x12? They are meant to be the dream pairing for 6505+'s. Anything with V30's works for my sound I reckon, I'm from the UK by the way.

Mesa's are twice the cost of an Orange but apparently the build quality is much better.

For the new album we're writing I think we're going for a more rock orientated sound though so maybe a Mesa might limit us to metalcore type sounds?

Just want something with tighter bottom end, richer mids and more cut in the highs.

 

[Van Noord]

Re: Cab upgrade

An oversized Recto cab is always a good choice.

I know it can be sacrilegious, but try lowering your mids if you want a tighter low end thump.
Remember, you're already using a naturally mid heavy amp, a mid heavy boost pedal and a pair (and possibly more) of mid dominant V30s. Not mention likely a mid prominent bridge pickup.

Roll back your 6505s mids to 3-4/10 .
Also, when boosting do not have the pedals gain knob on zero. Add a touch of gain, and pull the level back to 75%.
Boost pedals rob high gain amps of lowend and thin them out, albiet tightening up the attack, so compensation is often required.
Another thing is to place your cabinet directly on the floor to achieve maximum bass reflex from the floor. (Carpeted ideally)

 

[DeadandBuried]

Re: Cab upgrade

I have read the Rectifier Traditional is better suited?

I have my mids around 5, as I don't want to be drowned out in the mix. Esp with a low tuning.
On the OD808 drive is at 9 o'clock (left knob) and level is 3pm (right knob) seems to work that way.

 

[Nightburst]

Re: Cab upgrade

For this exact reason I started modding my JCM800 slanted cab. I took a few tricks from other manufacturers and to this day I like the results. I A/B'ed this with an Mesa recto OS cab and yes the mesa sounds bigger but only so much.
I think the most important thing besides cabinet build quality is the speakers. If you play with a lot of gain and need a tight sound with chunky low end you gonna want both crunch and power from your speakers. This is why mixing V30's with higher wattage rated speakers is so populair, to keep the low end tight. I do not like the T75's (they sound buzzy and flubby to me) so I choose the 'Diezel' combination: V30's and G12k-100. Crunch and power, they blend very nice giving you best of both worlds.

Another thing I did was change out the cabs particle board backplate and had a solid multiply piece cut to the same size, reused the tolex. I covered the inside of the backplate with some foam, I cannot scientifically explain what it does but to my ears it tames all the obnoxious high frequencies so I can run my amp with most of my controls set to 12 o' clock and have tight, crunchy, chunky tone.

 

[Jigsisme]

Re: Cab upgrade

I've tried multiple cabs and currently own 3 different 2x12's that give me all the flavors I want. To your needs, I would try an EVH cab. I love mine!! I was going to get an Orange but got a great deal on the evh...it was free when I bought the evh head. I always run 2 of the cabs together, 99% of the time its with the Benz on bottom with the evh on top. I'm always gas'in for an Orange but don't think its a "have to have" cuz the setup I have is sweet and versatile. Just try as many as you can and always trust you ear.
BTW, the Benz is very great cab, I will never get rid of mine as its always used as a "foundation" regardless of what amp I use. It is tight and focused but is heavy on the bass side of the spectrum. Just a thought, in case you've never played them.

 

[dave74]

Re: Cab upgrade

For this exact reason I started modding my JCM800 slanted cab. I took a few tricks from other manufacturers and to this day I like the results. I A/B'ed this with an Mesa recto OS cab and yes the mesa sounds bigger but only so much.
I think the most important thing besides cabinet build quality is the speakers. If you play with a lot of gain and need a tight sound with chunky low end you gonna want both crunch and power from your speakers. This is why mixing V30's with higher wattage rated speakers is so populair, to keep the low end tight. I do not like the T75's (they sound buzzy and flubby to me) so I choose the 'Diezel' combination: V30's and G12k-100. Crunch and power, they blend very nice giving you best of both worlds.

Another thing I did was change out the cabs particle board backplate and had a solid multiply piece cut to the same size, reused the tolex. I covered the inside of the backplate with some foam, I cannot scientifically explain what it does but to my ears it tames all the obnoxious high frequencies so I can run my amp with most of my controls set to 12 o' clock and have tight, crunchy, chunky tone.

Nice mods for sure. Having those k100 in there is probably mostly why it has a big almost over-sized sound now, but the back really does make a difference also.

 

[B2D]

Re: Cab upgrade

I was looking for the exact same tonal solution you're looking for. I also had used similar cabs with similar speaker setups in the past.

It was recommended to me by people on here that I look for a mesa oversized cab, or a straight front standard recto cab, or an Orange 4x12.

I bought the Orange PPC412 because a) I can get it into the trunk of my car and b) I found a great deal locally on one used. It was an instant, massive improvement on my sound and that was before I even re-EQd the amp for that cab!

Live, those things slay. They're also great cabs to mic up as well. Two professional engineers I've worked recently with love those things b/c they mic up so well.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Cab upgrade

Been running my Spidervalve through an old Carvin 4X12. It's loaded with 12M-70's, 16 ohms wired series parallel for 16 ohms for the cab. The thing sounds massive.


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[Empty Pockets]

Re: Cab upgrade

Get the Orange 4x12.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Cab upgrade

Nothing beats a Marshall cabinet for a classic rock and heavy Metal woody organic tone, but f you are doing Peavey high gain, thats not what you want.You could get a 5150/6505 cabinet much cheaper that could get some serious brutal toanz I think would satisfy you, but a Mesa, or an Orange i would think be the best I think for your style, but also more expensive .
Bogners are the best all around cabs IMO,and they also are very expensive but still have the Marshall thing going on, but can still get the high gain sound you want.Th Mesas , and Oranges and Bogners have a deeper cabinet compared to the Marshall, and thats what lends to the massive high gain sound from 'em.

All things being equal they generally employ the same drivers- the V30's or G12t-75's for high gain, or with Peavey the Sheffields or other proprietary speakers.Thats not to say you can't install some great other speakers for metal like the Celestion G12k85/100's for instance ,or may other good metal speakers.

 

[DeadandBuried]

Re: Cab upgrade

I've tried an EVH before and I really didn't like it. Maybe cos it was 2x12 I don't know but I wasn't impressed. No cut and low end was a bit fizzy. I think V30's pair the best with 6505+ heads, they don't seem to get on well with any other ones I've played through, in my old band many cab share gigs were stock Marshall's and I HATED it!

 

[Van Noord]

Re: Cab upgrade

I've owned and used a Mesa Trad size slant for years. Bought it new back in 2001 when they were called the "Stiletto Traditional". (Grey piping, not silver like afterwards or black like currently)

The lowend is tight and tracks faster than the Recto OS Standard, but the OS has that fat sound typically heard with OS cabs. When playing loud or within a band, that becomes a little to fat and softens out your high gain tone a bit. At least compared to the tight, fast and chunky bass response of the Traditional size.

I like the voicing of the UK V30s too, as they have strong mids that aren't gnawing or fatigued sounding. They also have less of that fizzy high end that Chinese V30s put out.
It's a very stout cab with great chunk and sound projection.

 

[DeadandBuried]

Re: Cab upgrade

Does anyone know where the Orange V30 speakers are made?

Yeah I find if playing in bands with loud drummers/drop tunings and stuff I wanna cut through. Does the Mesa oversized kick out the mids a bit?

 

[Demanic]

Re: Cab upgrade

See if you can find an old Carvin 4x12 with the 12M-70's. Should be able to get one cheap because people on the internet seem to hate them. I have one, it's built like a tank with ply, not MDF. The 12M-70's cut, and have plenty of bottom.

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[GilmourD]

Re: Cab upgrade

G12T-75 = BLARG!!!

Pull those out of the cab and match those V30s with a couple of WGS ET65s or a couple of G12M Creambacks.

The G12T-75 is scooped and has too much bottom end. There's the farty tone issue you have.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Cab upgrade

Does anyone know where the Orange V30 speakers are made?

Yeah I find if playing in bands with loud drummers/drop tunings and stuff I wanna cut through. Does the Mesa oversized kick out the mids a bit?

AFAIK, China.

Either way, the V30's on Mesa cabs sound different not just because they're made in England, but because they're a slightly tweaked design.

FWIW, Marshall 1960V's come with UK-made Vintage 30's, yet they sound nothing like Mesa cabs. They too have their own variation of V30's.

 

[6stringerguy]

Re: Cab upgrade

Zilla super fatboy 2x12 is a tight sounding oversized 2x12 that has a 4x12 thump without sounding flubby, when you call Paul at Zilla he will ask you what you play, what you like and what you are looking for and he will give you all the options you could want.
Tolex and grill choice
Speaker config
And the cab dimensions
They also make 4x12 if that's your bag but I think the super fatboy is great value and sounds huge

 

[6stringerguy]

Re: Cab upgrade

Zilla super fatboy 2x12 is a tight sounding oversized 2x12 that has a 4x12 thump without sounding flubby, when you call Paul at Zilla he will ask you what you play, what you like and what you are looking for and he will give you all the options you could want.
Tolex and grill choice
Speaker config
And the cab dimensions
They also make 4x12 if that's your bag but I think the super fatboy is great value and sounds huge

I got one over engl,orange and mesa 2x12 and I don't regret it however I've never needed a 4x12 due to the excessive weight and size

 

[DeadandBuried]

Re: Cab upgrade

G12T-75 = BLARG!!!

Pull those out of the cab and match those V30s with a couple of WGS ET65s or a couple of G12M Creambacks.

The G12T-75 is scooped and has too much bottom end. There's the farty tone issue you have.

Haha yeah took me a few years to recognise it, but some of is attributed to the lightness of the wood which doesnt help. I always wondered why Mesa and Orange cabs were so heavy and now I know why! I prefer V30s if I'm honest that's what gets on well with my 6505+

 

[DeadandBuried]

Re: Cab upgrade

AFAIK, China.

Either way, the V30's on Mesa cabs sound different not just because they're made in England, but because they're a slightly tweaked design.

FWIW, Marshall 1960V's come with UK-made Vintage 30's, yet they sound nothing like Mesa cabs. They too have their own variation of V30's.

Hmm well I been seeing mixed reviews on them some say they're not as good as UK built ones whilst others say they're better!