Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

[CarmenJuandeago]

seems like a lot of people who disdain hi-gain pickups say that they can just make up for them with amp gain and compressor pedals, and still have better cleans/note articulation.

can a lower output bridge PAFish wind with an A2 really be as convincing for metal by using more gain from the amp/pedals/compressor

compared to something like a Custom/JB/ etc?


or will it never have the same chunk/bite/sustain as a higher output pickup?

 

[Artie]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

I would vote "yes", with conditions. Run through a pickup booster, then EQ, I can mimic almost anything. Almost.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

I guess it would be much easier to add gain/compression etc than remove it. I'm not sure they would necessarily respond 100% the same but close.

You can't get the thicker/higher output pickups to be as clear or respond to clean tone as low outputs do.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

It's definitely possible to get a low output pup to sound like a high output pup. It's almost near impossible to go the other way (make a high output pup sound and respond like a low output pup). Of course, like ArtieToo said, there are some conditions. For example, you can add gain, EQ and compression to say... a 59 but to get it to sound exactly like a Duncan Distortion specifically would be a tall order. However, to get it to sound generally like a high output pickup can definitely be done.

 

[dotsdad]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

. It's almost near impossible to go the other way (make a high output pup sound and respond like a low output pup). .

I must respectfully disagree. Guitars have volume knobs, you know?

 

[AlexR]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

No, the openness of a low output pickup isn't doable just with reducing the volume of a high output pickup. I have lots of quality PAF clones and there is something there that you don't get with the thicker pickups just turned down.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

I must respectfully disagree. Guitars have volume knobs, you know?

And I must respectfully disagree with you sir. Lowering the volume of a high output pickup does not make a high output pup sound or respond like a Jazz or Alnico II Pro pickup at all. Sure, lowering the volume knob can clean up the gain of a high output pickup a bit but the "compression" stays with it. Also, if you have not done a treble bleed mod on the pickup you also lose treble when you turn down the volume. The organic dynamics of a low output pickup are not available on a high output pickup at lower volumes and neither is the high volume sparkle of a low output pickup a.k.a. clean headroom.

So, although your attempt to say "guitars have volume knobs, you know?" as a way of insinuating I am not aware of volume knobs is a nice attempt at sarcasm; it still does not make a high output pickup lose it's compression or offer the full volume dynamics and responsiveness of a low output pickup.

 

[EDX]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

that's the exact situation where a a series/parallel switch becomes useful, also, IIRC the q filter was disegned exactly for that right? (give higher output pickups a response similar to paf style p'ups)

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

Yes, and you can't do the opposite very well (i.e. making a high output pickup resemble a low-output pickup). As such, low-output pickups are way more versatile.

 

[Kac]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

I would vote "yes", with conditions. Run through a pickup booster, then EQ, I can mimic almost anything. Almost.

I like this. I use an SD Pickup booster on my single coil pickups. I alter my dirt pedal and amp EQ to the desired levels and do not miss the high output humbuckers I used to use.

 

[RStabler]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

Yes. I do all the time.

 

[DreX]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

The EQ shape of a pickup looks like this

beyond the peak, it drops off fast, so it's a lot easier to work with the lower frequencies before the peak than it is the higher frequencies beyond it. You can do all sort of things with an EQ pedal, but when you crank up the amplitude, you introduce noise. You might make a humbucker sound like a single coil, but it's going to very buzzy since it would have had to magnify the weaker portion of the frequency range beyond the peak.

Then there's the issue of how hotter pickup compresses differently than a lower output pickup. Generally a higher output pickup has a lower dynamic range for whatever reason, some say it's inherent in the pickup while others say it's due to the amp being pushed harder, it might be a little of both. Compression is the loss of dynamic range and therefore the loss of information which can't be recovered. You can take a non-compressed signal and make it sound compressed with a compression pedal, but they seem to soften the pick attack in ways that hot pickups don't, and therefore sound unnatural.

In short, you can fake it 95% of the way, but the last 5% is essentially unobtainable. That's why so many guitarists still swear by guitar->amp->cable, because there are things that get lost that can't be recovered. I even have a lower-end multi effect pedal that boasts a single->humbucker and humbucker->single effects, so it's a thing, but I don't think it even get 95% of the way there.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

Yes, yes you can.

But - the EQ and tone are a whole other thing.

 

[Maggot]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

Lower gain pickups boosted do have a distinct sound, though. It's a sound I like a lot. It's the sound of ass being kicked.

 

[CarmenJuandeago]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

The EQ shape of a pickup looks like this

beyond the peak, it drops off fast, so it's a lot easier to work with the lower frequencies before the peak than it is the higher frequencies beyond it. You can do all sort of things with an EQ pedal, but when you crank up the amplitude, you introduce noise. You might make a humbucker sound like a single coil, but it's going to very buzzy since it would have had to magnify the weaker portion of the frequency range beyond the peak.

Then there's the issue of how hotter pickup compresses differently than a lower output pickup. Generally a higher output pickup has a lower dynamic range for whatever reason, some say it's inherent in the pickup while others say it's due to the amp being pushed harder, it might be a little of both. Compression is the loss of dynamic range and therefore the loss of information which can't be recovered. You can take a non-compressed signal and make it sound compressed with a compression pedal, but they seem to soften the pick attack in ways that hot pickups don't, and therefore sound unnatural.

In short, you can fake it 95% of the way, but the last 5% is essentially unobtainable. That's why so many guitarists still swear by guitar->amp->cable, because there are things that get lost that can't be recovered. I even have a lower-end multi effect pedal that boasts a single->humbucker and humbucker->single effects, so it's a thing, but I don't think it even get 95% of the way there.

So the tldr version is... if you want an early 80's metal tone,

it will sound better and more authentic with just medium gain on amp+higher output PU,

versus a low output PAF+higher gain on amp+pedal+compressor ?

 

[DreX]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

Lower gain pickups boosted do have a distinct sound, though. It's a sound I like a lot. It's the sound of ass being kicked.

I think that's especially true of Fitler'trons, I think people associate them with with Brian Setzer and hollow body Gretsch guitars, and never discover how dominating their overdriven tone can be outside of rockabilly music.

So the tldr version is... if you want an early 80's metal tone,

it will sound better and more authentic with just medium gain on amp+higher output PU,

versus a low output PAF+higher gain on amp+pedal+compressor ?

Definitely, if you try out a Super Distortion or a JB for example, you'll quickly discover why aftermarket pickups are/were such a big deal. They produce effortlessly something you'd otherwise have to work for, and then never even fully achieve; a longer sustain, tighter low end and upper mids definition you won't get from vintage style stock pickups.

 

[kramersteen]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

You can but it wont be a wild pony.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

Good Lord, it all can be reduced to "1"s and "0"s! With a sophisticated enough modeling program, you can almost duplicate anything. There is still that element where flesh meets metal.

 

[DreX]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

If the information is there, it can be manipulated, but if it's not, there's now way to create it out of nothing and still have a genuine product of that electric guitar. Once you get to the point of supplementing information from an outside source, you pull no punches, you buy a Roland GR-55 and make your guitar sound like a piano.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

^^
Or an orchestra.