can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

Oudy

New member
we all know about like alnico 2 and 5 but in my time on the forums ive heard of others and could someone basically explain how like they all sound.

i heard about alnico 2 and 5 and less commonly 4 and 8 and one of 3,5,6,and 7. how do each of them sound like in simplest description you guys canmanage.

i appreciate it you guys
 
Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

From another thread...

Son, let me introduce you to the world of magnets, pots & caps. You can add or subtract bass, mid, treble, and output. The odds of a particular PU giving you exact tone you want is a long shot, because that varies with guitar design & wood (every piece of wood has its unique tone qualities, even if cut from the same tree). What do magnets do? The same PU becomes the Custom with a ceramic, a C5 with an A5, and a Custom Custom with an A2; huge differences in tone.

It comes down to this. You can: 1) live with a guitar's tone that isn't what you want, 2) spend hundreds of dollars buying & selling PU's hoping to stumble across a stock PU that fits your wood and desired tone (there are no guarantees), or 3) start using magnets, pots, and caps to dial in your tone. This is simple stuff that a kid can do, so don't roll your eyes & start making excuses.

Alnico Magnets:
A2 - low output, heavy mids, little treble, bass is loose
A3 - low output, like an A2 but with more treble
A4 - mod output, the most balanced EQ of the magnets
A5 - mod/high output, lots of treble & tight bass, scooped mids
A6 - high output with less treble
A8 - high output, like a A2 with muscle

Pots:
250K-300K - takes off some of the highest treble, ideal for bridge PU's
500K - emphasizes treble, ideal for neck PU's, and bridge PU's with warm magnets

Caps:
.022 - for more treble - good for neck
.050 - less treble - good for bridge
.100 - more bass, less treble - good for bridge

There are many old threads about these, with more details, and all you need to know to do the work yourself.

So do you want to keeping buying PU's that someone with good intentions recommended, that may sound totally different in your guitar, especially played through your amp? Or do you want to be self-sufficient and be able to make a PU fit your needs? You are on the best forum to get help to do all of this. So, how soon can you start reading old threads and get up to speed (and don't tell me you've got to pick up some dry-cleaning or rearrange your sock drawer)?

Learn how your Guitar works!
 
Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

About Alnico II to V from the BK Forum:

Tim Mills said:
Magnets do add to the character of a pickup although it must be understood that a magnet doesn't have a sound on it's own, it contributes by the way it accentuates certain frequencies as current is induced in the coil windings.
Alnico II is the softest and generally has a smooth bass and treble although this is more pronounced the hotter the windings get.
Alnico III is very transparent, low output and clean,sounds great for rounded fat jazz applications-typical of '50s tone.
Alnico IV is probably the best vintage tone IMHO(for humbuckers) and along with II and III was used in the earliest PAFs-this is a fact and not myth as we've had them analysed and a collegue of mine has also seen original Gibson purchase orders that clearly state AIV bar stock being purchased.The tone of AIV is balanced and extremely organic, it produces the most authentic vintage tone and sits better in slightly hotter vintage winds than AII which tends to get very soft in the bass and highs if used incorrectly.
Finally Alnico V is the hottest producing more highs and lows, great for rock applications or where power and cut are important.
 
Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

From http://www.highorderpickups.com/ :
"One of the really fun things about pickups is the dramatic effect that different magnets can have on their tone. Changing from one grade to another can often take a "ho-hum" bucker to "main-player" status. Different winding formulas are key, but just as important to getting the tone you're after is magnet selection. For the most "vintage" tone, I recommend AlNiCo 2 or 5 in winds from about 7.5k to 8.9k. As the DC resistance goes up (a good relative measure of output) over 10k or so, AlNiCo can have trouble holding together and ceramic will help keep things together. It does add some "grain" to the tone though, so keep that in mind. AlNiCo 8 is interesting in that it's at once powerful, bright, and smooth but will be a bit too powerful for the vintage purist in low output winds. Due to the added cost, I don't always have AlNiCo 8 in stock. Here are some additional thoughts to help you make a decision on what will be best for you.


7.3k - 8.0k AlNiCo 2/3/4/5 - Good range for neck pickups. Lower output equals cleaner and brighter tones so players leaning toward really clean tones should "think low". AlNiCo 2 provides the warmest tone, and AlNiCo 4 provides a nice crisp top and tight semi-big bottom that's good for jazz runs. AlNiCo 3 is in between A2 and A4 in terms of tone - bright like A4 but not as punchy - sizzling like A2 but not as warm. Properly treated, AlNiCo 5 can be sweet and balanced across the board in the neck position.
7.3k - 7.5k AlNiCo 5 Even Wind - Classic "T-Top" tone. The lower output doesn't drive your rig as hard as typicl "PAF" winds but these can work well for vintage rock tones with a cleaner character.
8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 2 Even Wind - Warm vintage tone with a hint of natural compression. Good response to pick attack, pinch harmonics, etc. Nice and smooth. More of a balanced "stereo" character than an asymmetric wind.
8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 2 Asymmetric Wind - Similar to even wind, but with a bit more edge/cut on top, a bit of low-mid emphasis, and good harmonic "swirl". Midrange emphasis generally increases with increasing resistance. Excellent "PAF" tone.
8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 5 Even Wind - Sweet vintage tone the rounder punch of A5 on the wound strings and brighter top end as compared to A2. Good response to pick attack, pinch harmonics, etc. More of a balanced "stereo" character than an asymmetric wind.
8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 5 Asymmetric Wind - Similar to even wind, but with a bit more edge/cut on top, a bit of low-mid emphasis, and good harmonic "swirl". Brighter and more open than the same wind with A2. Midrange emphasis generally increases with increasing resistance. Excellent "classic PAF" tone.
8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 3 Even Wind - Open/balanced tone with more highend feel and a tighter bottom than AlNiCo 2 though with a bit less power. Good response to pick attack, pinch harmonics, etc. Has a little more "air in the tone."
8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 3 Asymmetric Wind - Similar to even wind, but with a bit more edge/cut on top, a bit of low-mid emphasis, and good harmonic "swirl". Not as warm as AlNiCo 2 but better for really dark guitars or when you like more highend feel and overall open character.
9.4-9.7k AlNiCo 5 "Maximus" Wind - Provides enough drive for a more "gainy" sound, but retains a lot of the articulation and definition of a lower output pickup. Allows pairing with higher output at the neck. As with any HighOrder pickup, the actual DC resistance varies with the magnet wire lot on hand. Bigger builders have more control over this. I wind to turns though so the tone of the pickup remains intact while the dc resistance varies within a certain range. "
 
Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

Is there such thing as an Alnico I?

If there is, is it just that it's too weak to hold magnetism in a pickup?
 
Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

Korus,

That was very educational. Thank you.

I think I get the general idea .... at least with single coils, but what happens in the case where you might drop A5s into Lil59 bridge (humbucker) wound to 11.78k Ohms. How would you describe the expected tone? What change in emphasis would you anticipate in highs/mids/lows/ vs the ceramic magnet version of the same pickup?
 
Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

Great Knowledge of Alnicos! I am really curious about what "stereo" mean? Does it mean that tube sound like the standard tone of a Marshall amp?
 
Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

Great Knowledge of Alnicos! I am really curious about what "stereo" mean? Does it mean that tube sound like the standard tone of a Marshall amp?


I'm with GreatWallGuard on this one. Could you expound on the "stereo" aspect of the tone?

Man, I'm thinking A5's scatter wound to about 7.5k neck and middle, with a TwangBanger in the bridge would be a balanced, versatile set ...... a hint of vintage chime and glass with added steam!

Another quick question: How do you think the TwangBanger would sound in the bridge with the
A5 and A2 combination the SSL52-1b uses?
 
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Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

I've searched and found only HBs & P90s references from HighOrderIckups.com, so I suppose the info is primarily related to bar magnets, and less to single coil/magnet rods.

"Another quick question: How do you think the TwangBanger would sound in the bridge with the
A5 and A2 combination the SSL52-1b uses?"

My guess is it'll be more round (less pronounced highs on 3 plain strings because of A2 rods), but I'm not sure magnet rods are as easily interchangeable as magnet bars. Or SD custom shop order ?

"but what happens in the case where you might drop A5s into Lil59 bridge (humbucker) wound to 11.78k Ohms. How would you describe the expected tone? What change in emphasis would you anticipate in highs/mids/lows/ vs the ceramic magnet version of the same pickup?"

More or less, I would expect the difference to be like Custom vs. Custom5 - lower output, lower resonant peak, scooped mids which result in relatively more pronounced highs and looser lows. Just guessin'. There must be a reason behind the decision to have '59 and JB single-spaced-humbuckers counterparts with ceramic instead of A5 - these ( JB Jr. & Lil'59 ) are closer to the bridge and much much narrower then regular HBs (JB & '59) so in order to have enough of the output for what is supposed to be mid to hot output bridge pickup - magnet was replaced A5->ceramic. My choice would be A8 as it is something in between A5 and ceramic, but before Crazy8 only A2,A5 and ceramic were used by SD. As already said, just guessin'.
 
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Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

anyone have experience with A4 in heavy distortion?
 
Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

Good info from HO. I wish SD would be a little more forthcoming with that kind of stuff, but I don't think Evan will let him. ;)

From what he is saying, asymmetrical coils produce more low-mids in addition to the effect on the highs.

Besure to check Zhang's info about tweaking magnet strength with small neo magnets. ;)
 
Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

Alnico IV is my very favorite bridge pickup. It nails "the record". I've heard that A4 was actually weaker than A2.
 
Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

The number has no relationship to magnetic strength. For example, an A5 is about 33% stronger than an A8. An A1 is only slightly weaker than an A2. 7200 guass vs 7500 gauss. From Wiki:

Alnico magnets are traditionally classified using numbers assigned by the Magnetic Materials Producers Association (MMPA), for example, alnico 3 or alnico 5. These classifications indicate chemical composition and magnetic properties. (The classification numbers themselves do not have any direct relation to the properties of the magnet; for instance, a higher number does not necessarily indicate a stronger magnet.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alnico
 
Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

A8 is the strongest alnico. A2 and A3 are the weakest. A4, A5, A6, and A9 have similar strengths, A4 might be a little weaker than the bunch and A9 a little stronger.
 
Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

And always forgotten the Fe-Ni-Cu alloy is very cool for pickup magnets (vintage Fender Wide Range Humbuckers).

12 years old thread !
 
Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

That's strange. Something is up with that because it's very easy to observe how much hotter A8 is than A5 or any of the alnicos. Maybe the gauss figure isn't the entire picture of mag strength.
 
Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

I agree that A8 sounds much louder than A5. Outside of a pickup A8 also feels like it's got a much stronger magnetic pull, and I've seen posts about using an A8 to degauss an A5 b/c it's so much stronger.
 
Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

I wonder if the A5's stronger magnetic pull maybe "dampens" the strings? It is odd.
 
Re: can someone explain all of the alnicos to me?

. . . and I've seen posts about using an A8 to degauss an A5 b/c it's so much stronger.

But that's not because it's stronger. Again, if you reference the wiki chart, the A8's coersive force is more than 3x that of the A5. From Wiki:

. . . coercive force, is a measure of the ability of a ferromagnetic material to withstand an external magnetic field without becoming demagnetized.

I'm guessing that the A5 is a "softer" material.
 
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