Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

[Gibson 1964]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

The "tone wood" debate is separate from the "guitar shape" debate, if you will. A person can acknowledge that one makes a difference while believing the other doesn't.

I am sticking with the "wood has a contribution" which is a broader category, which most of the "tonewoods don't matter" camp I have encountered don't believe anyway. I believe the thickness probably plays a large factor as well. I would also suspect the species of wood in its overall material structure probably matter more than the shape myself, but that is a matter of ad-hoc experience for me, not hard data.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

I think if you accept that wood makes a difference, you accept that its the inherent structure of the wood thats doing it. Shape goes hand in hand with structure, as its also directly responsible for mass. Additionally, the position of that structure in relation to the strings/neck seemingly would also be a logical extension of this.

 

[DreX]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

I would also suspect the species of wood in its overall material structure probably matter more than the shape myself, but that is a matter of ad-hoc experience for me, not hard data.

There's a resonant contribution in every physical and geometric aspect of the guitar. Imagine if you had a comically large pencil eraser shaped like a Tele, and then another shaped like a Les Paul, and you were to take them in hand and flop them about, and try to bend them every which way. It's easy to imagine they wouldn't bend exactly the same, the Les Paul would probably seem more rigid overall, but different in numerous ways. The same contortions happen when the guitar vibrates, but on a sonic level, and the way the guitar is capable of contorting in any and every given direction determines its sound, which will differ all the way up and down the neck as different frequencies travel through the guitar. Whether wood or body shape contribute more or less is not as important, so much as to say this illustrates why an HH mahogany Tele with maple top will never sound like a mahogany Les Paul with a maple top.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

why do you think the lp eraser would be more rigid than the tele eraser?

 

[DreX]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

why do you think the lp eraser would be more rigid than the tele eraser?

I'm just going on intuition, but the extra thickness and overall slimmer dimensions side to side. The point being they'd bend differently, and it's going to be more or less flexible from different angles. A frequency of a given wave length will try to bend the guitar wherever it can fit in a standing wave, and how successful it is depends on the shape and rigidity of the body along that dimension.

One thing that seems to be true more often that not is that people tend not to like really Fender-bright pickups in a Les Paul, but they like them in Fender style guitars. I'd bet that the overall thicker body of the Les Paul results in a more "scooped" tone, so matching it with bright pickups puts emphasis where it needs it the least, while putting a hotter pickup in it puts emphasis where it's most useful. Part of the reason why "only a Les Paul sounds like a Les Paul" might owe to the fact that every alternative design tends to be thinner and lighter for ergonomic reasons, and it's rare to see an alternative design that at least faithfully maintains a Les Paul's size and weight.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

To some extent, the materials and dimensions questions could be answered using just Gibson's own products. Original vintage piece versus Norlin era versus Historic versus Studio versus Smartwood versus R series versus chambered versus Tribute. You name it.

Under test conditions, with one set of pickups, electronics and hardware carried from each test guitar to the next, what ever differences the woods and dimensions make ought to be apparent.

If wood species makes nil difference, the swamp ash Smartwood model should sound like the traditional tonewood recipe sans weight relief.

If dimensions make nil difference, a Studio model should sound the same as a full depth, production line, unbound model. (The Gary Moore, perhaps?)

Of course, this entire hypothesis assumes that everybody desires the exact same sound from their particular guitar.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

I'm just going on intuition, but the extra thickness and overall slimmer dimensions side to side. The point being they'd bend differently, and it's going to be more or less flexible from different angles. A frequency of a given wave length will try to bend the guitar wherever it can fit in a standing wave, and how successful it is depends on the shape and rigidity of the body along that dimension.

One thing that seems to be true more often that not is that people tend not to like really Fender-bright pickups in a Les Paul, but they like them in Fender style guitars. I'd bet that the overall thicker body of the Les Paul results in a more "scooped" tone, so matching it with bright pickups puts emphasis where it needs it the least, while putting a hotter pickup in it puts emphasis where it's most useful. Part of the reason why "only a Les Paul sounds like a Les Paul" might owe to the fact that every alternative design tends to be thinner and lighter for ergonomic reasons, and it's rare to see an alternative design that at least faithfully maintains a Les Paul's size and weight.

I love the Duncan Jazz and the Duncan Alnico II Pro humbuckers in my Les Pauls, I also have an STK-S4 in an HSH Les Paul. Les Pauls have great natural mid presence (usually) thus I like to keep the balanced tone by choosing pickups like the Jazz and the Alnico II Pro that are a bit "lacking" in the mids department. That's just me though, everybody likes their Les Pauls their own way.

One thing I do not like at all is putting a hotter pickup in a Les Paul. Not my thing. I prefer putting mid boosted pickups in Strats though. They make up for the complete lack of mids and lows that are found in most Strats. I guess I just like to play on balanced instruments.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

To some extent, the materials and dimensions questions could be answered using just Gibson's own products. Original vintage piece versus Norlin era versus Historic versus Studio versus Smartwood versus R series versus chambered versus Tribute. You name it.

Under test conditions, with one set of pickups, electronics and hardware carried from each test guitar to the next, what ever differences the woods and dimensions make ought to be apparent.

If wood species makes nil difference, the swamp ash Smartwood model should sound like the traditional tonewood recipe sans weight relief.

If dimensions make nil difference, a Studio model should sound the same as a full depth, production line, unbound model. (The Gary Moore, perhaps?)

Of course, this entire hypothesis assumes that everybody desires the exact same sound from their particular guitar.

Agreed.

I currently have a chambered mahogany with maple cap and a chambered black korina Warmoth LP with a solid body swamp ash regal body on the way. I have played swamp ash Les Paul's in the past and they definitely have a more responsive attitude. The swamp ash left a permanent love stain so I had to give in to the lust I felt to own one finally. Even the black korina and the mahogany have their own personalities aside from each other. The korina is slightly more middy with a boomier low end while being responsive in a way that is similar to swamp ash without the high mids.

I encourage people who think wood does not make a difference at all to play a Gibson or Warmoth LP using the traditional tonewood recipe and then play a Gibson voodoo or swamp ash studio/Warmoth swamp ash LP/Regal and tell me they sound the same. IMO there is definitely more shaping the tone than just the shape and thickness of the body construction.

 

[DreX]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

I love the Duncan Jazz and the Duncan Alnico II Pro humbuckers in my Les Pauls

I have a Les Paul with a Jazz neck and bridge, I wouldn't say either position comes close to, say, a Filter'tron, or the DiMarzio EJ Custom, which is supposed to be voiced like a Filer'tron. You hardly see people stuffing Filter'trons into 'Pauls, and based on Google searches I had done, the EJ Custom doesn't see much action, either.

It's pretty rare to see these conversion kits in a Les Paul, in fact I couldn't even find a picture of one

There was a PRS guitar with three singles, the "305", I think it was discontinued due to poor sales.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

I like the sound of an LP.
I prefer the look and weight of an SG. With identical electronics, the same scale, same hardware, they do not sound the same.
While there is not one LP sound, pickups will not make an SG sound like an LP.
However, while I can't do this on a strat, a tele bridge pickup, using the tone knob can pull off a reasonable relation of the sounds
I associate with LPs, even more so than I can with SGs.

This SG sounds like a Les Paul :headbang:

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

an obese SG... what will they think of next...

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

I have a Les Paul with a Jazz neck and bridge, I wouldn't say either position comes close to, say, a Filter'tron, or the DiMarzio EJ Custom, which is supposed to be voiced like a Filer'tron. You hardly see people stuffing Filter'trons into 'Pauls, and based on Google searches I had done, the EJ Custom doesn't see much action, either.

It's pretty rare to see these conversion kits in a Les Paul, in fact I couldn't even find a picture of one

There was a PRS guitar with three singles, the "305", I think it was discontinued due to poor sales.

Les Paul with Filtertrons / TV Jones ?

That is one conversion i still want to do :

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

an obese SG... what will they think of next...

Funny that you would ask :


How about a White Falcon Tele ?

. . . or . . .





a Tele Firebird ?

 

[DreX]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

I really wanted one of these, but few were made and they sold out fast

The Cabronitas sound amazing, but the lack of a tone knob really sucks.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

Even a Gretsch style Tone Switch would be an improvement.

You hardly see people stuffing Filter'trons into 'Pauls.

Don't tempt me.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

I really wanted one of these, but few were made and they sold out fast

The Cabronitas sound amazing, but the lack of a tone knob really sucks.

I LOVE Tele's but for some reason can not gel with their slim line semi's . . . weird.

Now THIS on the other hand . . .

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

This thread just turned into an odd combination of GAS and obesity.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

an odd combination of GAS and obesity.

Aceman, perhaps?

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

Aceman, perhaps?

Hahahah dude thats brutal.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Can the right pickups get Les Paul tones from any guitar?

AceBob can take it. He's no teacup.