Can you fix a guitar that doesn't play in tune?
- Thread starter spuds
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Boogie Bill
New member
Re: Can you fix a guitar that doesn't play in tune?
Just to be sure, there are two different concepts: Tuning instability; and intonation. I'm assuming you are talking INTONATION.
You need to set intonation with new strings that have been stretched. I like to let them settle for 24 hours, unplayed, before I do any intonation work. Once they have been used--intonation deteriorates. Keeping my hands and strings clean--I get about 15-20 hours of gigging play-time from a set of electric strings. They do wear out.
If you have frets that have not been leveled and crowned properly, the guitar will not play in tune.
If the nut has not been cut properly, the guitar will not play in tune.
If the bridge saddles have not been cut properly, the guitar will not play in tune. Yours look a little suspect to me.
If the neck joint is unstable, or if the the top of a hollow-body or semi-hollow is unstable--well, you get the idea. If the neck itself is weak, or you have been pulling on the neck to get vibrato--that could be the cause of the problem. (That kind of vibrato is only good for guys who can afford to replace necks or buy a lot of replacement guitars!)
Oh, and make sure that the tuners aren't loose and the nuts snug but not over-tightened. There should be zero play in the tuner mounting.
You might try holding the guitar in playing position, like if you stand with the guitar with a strap--and set the bridge intonation with the guitar in that position. Yes, it will be awkward--perhaps you'll want to enlist the help of a friend. It can make a difference with some guitars.
You might also try checking the intonation by using a capo at the 1st, 2nd, 3rd fret--and then checking the respective fretted octave; rather than the open strings.
I had a very nice Gibson guitar years ago with not only an intonation problem but the tuning was unstable too. I finally sold it, and was glad to be rid of it. You'll have to figure out how much more money you're willing to spend on this guitar. And you might just be sensitive to the evils of Equal Temperment Tuning--and only a guitar with a Buzz Feiten or Earvana modification will satisfy your golden ears.
Good luck.
Bill
Just to be sure, there are two different concepts: Tuning instability; and intonation. I'm assuming you are talking INTONATION.
You need to set intonation with new strings that have been stretched. I like to let them settle for 24 hours, unplayed, before I do any intonation work. Once they have been used--intonation deteriorates. Keeping my hands and strings clean--I get about 15-20 hours of gigging play-time from a set of electric strings. They do wear out.
If you have frets that have not been leveled and crowned properly, the guitar will not play in tune.
If the nut has not been cut properly, the guitar will not play in tune.
If the bridge saddles have not been cut properly, the guitar will not play in tune. Yours look a little suspect to me.
If the neck joint is unstable, or if the the top of a hollow-body or semi-hollow is unstable--well, you get the idea. If the neck itself is weak, or you have been pulling on the neck to get vibrato--that could be the cause of the problem. (That kind of vibrato is only good for guys who can afford to replace necks or buy a lot of replacement guitars!)
Oh, and make sure that the tuners aren't loose and the nuts snug but not over-tightened. There should be zero play in the tuner mounting.
You might try holding the guitar in playing position, like if you stand with the guitar with a strap--and set the bridge intonation with the guitar in that position. Yes, it will be awkward--perhaps you'll want to enlist the help of a friend. It can make a difference with some guitars.
You might also try checking the intonation by using a capo at the 1st, 2nd, 3rd fret--and then checking the respective fretted octave; rather than the open strings.
I had a very nice Gibson guitar years ago with not only an intonation problem but the tuning was unstable too. I finally sold it, and was glad to be rid of it. You'll have to figure out how much more money you're willing to spend on this guitar. And you might just be sensitive to the evils of Equal Temperment Tuning--and only a guitar with a Buzz Feiten or Earvana modification will satisfy your golden ears.
Good luck.
Bill
Boogie Bill
New member
Re: Can you fix a guitar that doesn't play in tune?
Sure is! That could cause a problem.
Bill
sure that bridge isnt on backwards?
Sure is! That could cause a problem.
Bill
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: Can you fix a guitar that doesn't play in tune?
Whether the tone-o-matic is backwards or not doesn't matter as long as you intonate.
You say that when you intonated on the 12th fret then you get good tune up the neck and with open chords, but not with full chords at low frets, right?
In that case your nut is probably cut to have the strings too high. You could also try an intonating nut. It is possible that you are above average sensitive to accords slightly out of tune.
So how often do you have problems that the guitar gets and stays out of tune, as opposed to just have some chords off?
%%
Reviewing your pictures I see that the way you put the strings on the tuner looks kosher. As always, some lubricant in the nut for the strings to glide is needed. I use a soft pencil.
If you have problems with the guitar staying out of tune we can look at the tailpiece and bridge, but I need you to answer the question above first.
Whether the tone-o-matic is backwards or not doesn't matter as long as you intonate.
You say that when you intonated on the 12th fret then you get good tune up the neck and with open chords, but not with full chords at low frets, right?
In that case your nut is probably cut to have the strings too high. You could also try an intonating nut. It is possible that you are above average sensitive to accords slightly out of tune.
So how often do you have problems that the guitar gets and stays out of tune, as opposed to just have some chords off?
%%
Reviewing your pictures I see that the way you put the strings on the tuner looks kosher. As always, some lubricant in the nut for the strings to glide is needed. I use a soft pencil.
If you have problems with the guitar staying out of tune we can look at the tailpiece and bridge, but I need you to answer the question above first.
claydots
New member
Re: Can you fix a guitar that doesn't play in tune?
This is a pretty good reference site.
http://www.endino.com/archive/tuningnightmares.html
This is a pretty good reference site.
http://www.endino.com/archive/tuningnightmares.html
timccart
New member
Re: Can you fix a guitar that doesn't play in tune?
LP has to have bridge facing away from stop tailpiece for access reasons. Check other guitars, like a string through body or Bigsby type tailpiece, like his and screws face away from headstock.
As was stated, it really doesn't matter, if intonated correctly. I was stating based on his type of tailpiece.
LP has to have bridge facing away from stop tailpiece for access reasons. Check other guitars, like a string through body or Bigsby type tailpiece, like his and screws face away from headstock.
As was stated, it really doesn't matter, if intonated correctly. I was stating based on his type of tailpiece.
sure that bridge isnt on backwards?
Lazarus1140
New member
Re: Can you fix a guitar that doesn't play in tune?
1) Just looking at the bridges saddles it's hard to imagine that the intonation is correctly set.
2) If the A note played on the E straing at the 5th fret sounds sharper than the F note on the first fret it would seem to indicate the need for truss rod adjustment. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if the nut slots are cut wrong the worst intonation will on the open chords where open strings are combined with fretted strings .... like an open C chord or an E.
3) Have you sighted down the neck looking for twist?
1) Just looking at the bridges saddles it's hard to imagine that the intonation is correctly set.
2) If the A note played on the E straing at the 5th fret sounds sharper than the F note on the first fret it would seem to indicate the need for truss rod adjustment. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if the nut slots are cut wrong the worst intonation will on the open chords where open strings are combined with fretted strings .... like an open C chord or an E.
3) Have you sighted down the neck looking for twist?
Re: Can you fix a guitar that doesn't play in tune?
Yes, the guitar is intonated correctly at open/12 fret positions. It stays in tune fine. It just doesn't PLAY in tune at certain positions on the neck.
I do know how to do basic setups and have done what I could already. I'm aware that the saddle positions look "wrong", but that is what was required to intonate at open/12th fret - in fact this is what worries me... it probably means there's something seriously wrong like the bridge in the wrong spot or the frets put on at an angle?
I've looked down the neck and it looks pretty straight.
I think this is worth bringing to a pro.
Yes, the guitar is intonated correctly at open/12 fret positions. It stays in tune fine. It just doesn't PLAY in tune at certain positions on the neck.
I do know how to do basic setups and have done what I could already. I'm aware that the saddle positions look "wrong", but that is what was required to intonate at open/12th fret - in fact this is what worries me... it probably means there's something seriously wrong like the bridge in the wrong spot or the frets put on at an angle?
I've looked down the neck and it looks pretty straight.
I think this is worth bringing to a pro.
