Can you make conductive shielding paint?
- Thread starter devilfish
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Sporky McGuffin
New member
Re: Can you make conductive shielding paint?
Slug tape is a cheaper approach.
Slug tape is a cheaper approach.
D
DLT
Guest
Re: Can you make conductive shielding paint?
Quite the idea! You get a whole crap load of it too for a fraction of the price! :fing2:
www.amazon.com/Ambrands-15Slug-Snail-Copper-715/dp/B000QD3BPW
Quite the idea! You get a whole crap load of it too for a fraction of the price! :fing2:
www.amazon.com/Ambrands-15Slug-Snail-Copper-715/dp/B000QD3BPW
Bezmotivnik
New member
Re: Can you make conductive shielding paint?
To answer the question, I don't think so.
I thought it'd be a simple matter to find conductive paint, so I went to the paint store and asked. The guy had time on his hands and was curious, so he looked around for a while until he came up with this "cold galvanizing" spray paint that was supposed to be 96% pure metallic zinc.
We're thinking, "This HAS to be conductive!"
Wrong. It might as well be plastic film. How the paint vehicle manages to isolate the metal particles from each other so effectively, I don't know. I've been through the same thing with copper gasket paint. :scratchch
Some mystery, huh?
To answer the question, I don't think so.
I thought it'd be a simple matter to find conductive paint, so I went to the paint store and asked. The guy had time on his hands and was curious, so he looked around for a while until he came up with this "cold galvanizing" spray paint that was supposed to be 96% pure metallic zinc.
We're thinking, "This HAS to be conductive!"
Wrong. It might as well be plastic film. How the paint vehicle manages to isolate the metal particles from each other so effectively, I don't know. I've been through the same thing with copper gasket paint. :scratchch
Some mystery, huh?
That90'sGuy
DyzaBoyzologist
Re: Can you make conductive shielding paint?
But the big question is whether or not both sides of the tape are conductive.
The one thing I had liked about the Stew Mac copper tape was that if you needed to cover every spot, you didn't have to solder from piece to piece, you could simply overlap in spots to make the electrical connection continuous.
But the big question is whether or not both sides of the tape are conductive.
The one thing I had liked about the Stew Mac copper tape was that if you needed to cover every spot, you didn't have to solder from piece to piece, you could simply overlap in spots to make the electrical connection continuous.
Zerberus
Baron Von Shred
Re: Can you make conductive shielding paint?
If you have a laborators available that makes it possible for you to mix paints AND add in particles of silver or copper to have a suspended solution that´s about 50% actual metal, 40% solvents, and 10% all sorts of wacky stuff that make it work in teh forst place: yes.
For 99.9% of the world´s population: No
What works well is an automotive paint that´s uses for repairing window defrosters and such. It´s sometimes cheaper than "real" shielding shielding paint, but has almost the same metal content. It´s still IMO doing it cheap as opposed to doing it right, which generally means wasting money the first time and doing it again properly.
If you have a laborators available that makes it possible for you to mix paints AND add in particles of silver or copper to have a suspended solution that´s about 50% actual metal, 40% solvents, and 10% all sorts of wacky stuff that make it work in teh forst place: yes.
For 99.9% of the world´s population: No
What works well is an automotive paint that´s uses for repairing window defrosters and such. It´s sometimes cheaper than "real" shielding shielding paint, but has almost the same metal content. It´s still IMO doing it cheap as opposed to doing it right, which generally means wasting money the first time and doing it again properly.
Re: Can you make conductive shielding paint?
i just had to tear all the metal heating duct tape i used for sheilding my Warmoth... i guess the different metals were reacting with eachother and i had a weird grey fuzz growing on all the metal electronic parts... my 5 way switch was covered in it... trem claw that had the ground wire on it was also growing...
think next time i'll stick to the real sheilding supplies... like Copper
i just had to tear all the metal heating duct tape i used for sheilding my Warmoth... i guess the different metals were reacting with eachother and i had a weird grey fuzz growing on all the metal electronic parts... my 5 way switch was covered in it... trem claw that had the ground wire on it was also growing...
think next time i'll stick to the real sheilding supplies... like Copper
Bezmotivnik
New member
Re: Can you make conductive shielding paint?
Any gummed aluminum metal tape is fine, copper has no advantage over it, but paint is easier. All you need is overall continuity. There are lots of misconceptions about shielding.
I have no idea what paint you're talking about, but check my message.
Any gummed aluminum metal tape is fine, copper has no advantage over it, but paint is easier. All you need is overall continuity. There are lots of misconceptions about shielding.
Zerberus
Baron Von Shred
Re: Can you make conductive shielding paint?
A small bottle of silver or black conductive paint available in just any automotive supply store (cripes I used to buy mine at Bauhaus /Home Depot) designed specifically for repairing window defogging lines. Mopar, DuPont, and Motip produce it among others. There is a small brush in the cap, it actually looks a lot like "touch up" paint at first glance. One bottle is enough for 2-3 strat cavities depending on how thick you lay it on.
I agree, but the question asked was NOT what tape /foil to use for shielding in lieu of paint, but whether or not it is possible to mix proper shielding paint yourself. You hinted on it possibly being unfeasable, I explained why.
Most of the commercially available high-end products contain metal particles which give them their silvery or coppery color. The other option which is even less practical for home making due to the dust involved is graphite, this is the "black" shielding paint available from Stew-mac and other suppliers. When mixed or purchased pre mixed it is just as perfectly safe, but the mixing process is more dangerous with the graphite laced paint due to things like airborn carbon dust, which also presents an explosion hazard. But again, neither is really feasible to mix at home, so it´s a bit of a moot point whether one might explode and the other has a lower chance.
And that is the reason for my posts, answering the actual question instead of pushing my own personal way of doing it like most others in the thread. Saying "i do it that way, it works" is great, but it doesn´t answer the question at all.
Just about everybody knows that it can be done with tape, but paint looks cleaner, guarantees continuity when properly applied, and causes less long term corrosion issues (aka "Grey fuzz"). This is why almost no manufacturer that actually shields their guitars uses tape to do so. Another reason is that it´s significantly harder to properly apply the tape that it is to simply brush over the cavity with paint, = less training to achieve the same quality or better result. The only "bad" thing about paint is it has to dry for about an hour, wheras with tape you can go as soon as you´re done.
What I personally use these days is a silver bearing paint available in most electronics stores for about 5 bucks. I buy it in phioles with about 10 mL in them (enough for one guitar and a bit of touchup if necessary) and apply it after the sealer coats. Then I wire in the cavity grounds and reapply another 2 layers, covering the soldering lugs I just installed. Then color and clearcoats. The advantage is that the shield is now additionally protected by the color and clearcoats, and ground continiuity is guaranteed by simply soldering a single wire fronm teh back of a pot to the lug mounted on the cavity wall
A small bottle of silver or black conductive paint available in just any automotive supply store (cripes I used to buy mine at Bauhaus /Home Depot) designed specifically for repairing window defogging lines. Mopar, DuPont, and Motip produce it among others. There is a small brush in the cap, it actually looks a lot like "touch up" paint at first glance. One bottle is enough for 2-3 strat cavities depending on how thick you lay it on.
I agree, but the question asked was NOT what tape /foil to use for shielding in lieu of paint, but whether or not it is possible to mix proper shielding paint yourself. You hinted on it possibly being unfeasable, I explained why.
Most of the commercially available high-end products contain metal particles which give them their silvery or coppery color. The other option which is even less practical for home making due to the dust involved is graphite, this is the "black" shielding paint available from Stew-mac and other suppliers. When mixed or purchased pre mixed it is just as perfectly safe, but the mixing process is more dangerous with the graphite laced paint due to things like airborn carbon dust, which also presents an explosion hazard. But again, neither is really feasible to mix at home, so it´s a bit of a moot point whether one might explode and the other has a lower chance.
And that is the reason for my posts, answering the actual question instead of pushing my own personal way of doing it like most others in the thread. Saying "i do it that way, it works" is great, but it doesn´t answer the question at all.
Just about everybody knows that it can be done with tape, but paint looks cleaner, guarantees continuity when properly applied, and causes less long term corrosion issues (aka "Grey fuzz"). This is why almost no manufacturer that actually shields their guitars uses tape to do so. Another reason is that it´s significantly harder to properly apply the tape that it is to simply brush over the cavity with paint, = less training to achieve the same quality or better result. The only "bad" thing about paint is it has to dry for about an hour, wheras with tape you can go as soon as you´re done.
What I personally use these days is a silver bearing paint available in most electronics stores for about 5 bucks. I buy it in phioles with about 10 mL in them (enough for one guitar and a bit of touchup if necessary) and apply it after the sealer coats. Then I wire in the cavity grounds and reapply another 2 layers, covering the soldering lugs I just installed. Then color and clearcoats. The advantage is that the shield is now additionally protected by the color and clearcoats, and ground continiuity is guaranteed by simply soldering a single wire fronm teh back of a pot to the lug mounted on the cavity wall
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Bezmotivnik
New member
Re: Can you make conductive shielding paint?
I think, however, that the reason manufacturers use paint rather than foil is primarily labor costs. They do use foil where it doesn't have to be laboriously put around compound curves, like under cavity covers and pickguards, but paint is far quicker for covering complex cavity walls and is therefore worth the extra expense.
Again, my experience with metal-bearing paint didn't produce continuity (see original post), but it didn't claim to, either. The stuff for patching window defroster lines sounds great, but I'll bet it's as expensive as $tew-Mac's. I'll look for it, though.
I know, I was responding to the posts about "slug tape." It's more expensive and no better than cheaper aluminum gummed tape.
I think, however, that the reason manufacturers use paint rather than foil is primarily labor costs. They do use foil where it doesn't have to be laboriously put around compound curves, like under cavity covers and pickguards, but paint is far quicker for covering complex cavity walls and is therefore worth the extra expense.
Again, my experience with metal-bearing paint didn't produce continuity (see original post), but it didn't claim to, either. The stuff for patching window defroster lines sounds great, but I'll bet it's as expensive as $tew-Mac's. I'll look for it, though.
D
DLT
Guest
Re: Can you make conductive shielding paint?
Zerb,
Is it possible to use aluminum foil and glue it in with tacky glue to shield the pup routes? I thought about using a screw and small washer to attach each ground wire underneath the foil. Will this work?
What I personally use these days is a silver bearing paint available in most electronics stores for about 5 bucks. I buy it in phioles with about 10 mL in them (enough for one guitar and a bit of touch up if necessary) and apply it after the sealer coats. Then I wire in the cavity grounds and reapply another 2 layers, covering the soldering lugs I just installed. Then color and clearcoats. The advantage is that the shield is now additionally protected by the color and clearcoats, and ground continiuity is guaranteed by simply soldering a single wire from the back of a pot to the lug mounted on the cavity wall
Zerb,
Is it possible to use aluminum foil and glue it in with tacky glue to shield the pup routes? I thought about using a screw and small washer to attach each ground wire underneath the foil. Will this work?
Zerberus
Baron Von Shred
Re: Can you make conductive shielding paint?
Possible: As others have stated, yes. if you do it properly and with the correct attention to detail.
It`s IMO unnecessarily tedious and low tech, and has the greatest chance of failing of all options to boot.
I´d buy a roll of copper tape for 2.50$ before spending 1.99$ doing it this way just so I can do it again in 2 months. But it´s your guitar and I get paid to repair things caused by Home-Depot luthiers, so I won´t stop you
Possible: As others have stated, yes. if you do it properly and with the correct attention to detail.
It`s IMO unnecessarily tedious and low tech, and has the greatest chance of failing of all options to boot.
I´d buy a roll of copper tape for 2.50$ before spending 1.99$ doing it this way just so I can do it again in 2 months. But it´s your guitar and I get paid to repair things caused by Home-Depot luthiers, so I won´t stop you
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: Can you make conductive shielding paint?
Kitchen aluminum foil and paper glue always worked for me.
I have this newish idea to take one of the strong ziplock bags (the blue stuff), stuff a layer of aluminium foil inside, along with a bare wire, and just slam that over the back of the pots. Should work pretty well. Didn't try yet.
Kitchen aluminum foil and paper glue always worked for me.
I have this newish idea to take one of the strong ziplock bags (the blue stuff), stuff a layer of aluminium foil inside, along with a bare wire, and just slam that over the back of the pots. Should work pretty well. Didn't try yet.
Zerberus
Baron Von Shred
Re: Can you make conductive shielding paint?
^^ This is another product often available in electronics stores becasue it´s usually used to shield the inside of plastic housings and similar, I totally forgot about it.
Used it before, works perfectly, as does this one: http://www.banzaimusic.com/Graphit-33-200ml.html
Just about anything Kontakt Chemie /CRC Industries makes should be readily available in Europe :beerchug:
^^ This is another product often available in electronics stores becasue it´s usually used to shield the inside of plastic housings and similar, I totally forgot about it.
Used it before, works perfectly, as does this one: http://www.banzaimusic.com/Graphit-33-200ml.html
Just about anything Kontakt Chemie /CRC Industries makes should be readily available in Europe :beerchug:
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Stratman
Guitaris Maximus
Re: Can you make conductive shielding paint?
Get some conductive paint used by alarm companies to track alarm circuits on windows...
Dirt cheap and works really well.
http://www.shieldingsystems.eu/index.php?p=Nieuws&id=133&Lang=2&gclid=CN_FoqXBtZ4CFQMupAod4A11nA
http://shop.rabtron.co.za/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2861
http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?TabID=1&criteria=usb&ModuleNo=36275&C=SO&U=Strat15
Get some conductive paint used by alarm companies to track alarm circuits on windows...
Dirt cheap and works really well.
http://www.shieldingsystems.eu/index.php?p=Nieuws&id=133&Lang=2&gclid=CN_FoqXBtZ4CFQMupAod4A11nA
http://shop.rabtron.co.za/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2861
http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?TabID=1&criteria=usb&ModuleNo=36275&C=SO&U=Strat15
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D
DLT
Guest
Re: Can you make conductive shielding paint?
Okay...so one lays a copper wire into the pup cavities/control cavity. Then put on the conductive paint and then solder the wire to the outside of the volume pot?
Is that all there is to it? I have never done this before. Thanks.
Okay...so one lays a copper wire into the pup cavities/control cavity. Then put on the conductive paint and then solder the wire to the outside of the volume pot?
Is that all there is to it? I have never done this before. Thanks.
D
