Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

[ratherdashing]

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

in other words: let's make people buy our tubes and save the customers for as long as they have our amps. That sucks. I don't like that guy, he just goes around and patents just about anything that's not already patented and on the other hand he steals SLO design, adds some bells and whistles and calls it a dual rectifier. Bulls**t

You say it "sucks", but why exactly does it suck?

As a Mesa owner, I have no problem buying Mesa tubes. I actually appreciate the fact that I never need to bias my amp, or pay someone to do it. If Mesa tubes cost twice as much as other brands I might be pissed off, but they seem to be priced comparably to anything else out there (the last time I bought tubes, the Mesa EL34's were actually cheaper than the GT EL34's). In other words, its easier and more convenient, and I'm not put out by it in any way. Maybe I'm completely missing something here, but I fail to see how that sucks on any level.

I won't comment on the SLO issue because I don't really know what you're talking about (and I'm not sure you do either). If there is any similarity between an SLO and a Dual Rec other than the fact they're both 100 watt high gain heads, I'm not seeing it.

 

[ksmith63]

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

You say it "sucks", but why exactly does it suck?

As a Mesa owner, I have no problem buying Mesa tubes. I actually appreciate the fact that I never need to bias my amp, or pay someone to do it. If Mesa tubes cost twice as much as other brands I might be pissed off, but they seem to be priced comparably to anything else out there (the last time I bought tubes, the Mesa EL34's were actually cheaper than the GT EL34's). In other words, its easier and more convenient, and I'm not put out by it in any way. Maybe I'm completely missing something here, but I fail to see how that sucks on any level.

I won't comment on the SLO issue because I don't really know what you're talking about (and I'm not sure you do either). If there is any similarity between an SLO and a Dual Rec other than the fact they're both 100 watt high gain heads, I'm not seeing it.

I thought the 5150 was a copy of the SLO?

Mesa is rumored to relabel ruby tubes. Ruby tubes are rumored to be not very good.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

I thought the 5150 was a copy of the SLO?

Mesa is rumored to relabel ruby tubes. Ruby tubes are rumored to be not very good.

That is completely bogus, since Ruby themselves relabel tubes from JJ/Tesla and elsewhere. I don't know where Mesa gets their tubes from (probably changes all the time) but it's extremely unlikely it's from Ruby.

 

[ksmith63]

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

That is completely bogus, since Ruby themselves relabel tubes from JJ/Tesla and elsewhere. I don't know where Mesa gets their tubes from (probably changes all the time) but it's extremely unlikely it's from Ruby.

I thought groove tubes was the company that relabeled everyone else's, hence the higher price on just about everything.

Most Ruby tubes are about the cheapest thing you can find. Only thing lower in price are the bottom of the barrel sovteks.

 

[glassman]

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

Most Ruby tubes are about the cheapest thing you can find. Only thing lower in price are the bottom of the barrel sovteks.

Ruby is a direct importer. They sell raw tubes to a surprising list of retailers (aside from the ones that they market as Rubys). The lower price of the Rubys are a result of the lack of a middle man and the fact that they sell an enormous number of tubes.

ALL tube retailers get thier tubes from the same places...some more directly than others.

 

[StillLearnin']

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

I thought groove tubes was the company that relabeled everyone else's, hence the higher price on just about everything.

Most Ruby tubes are about the cheapest thing you can find. Only thing lower in price are the bottom of the barrel sovteks.

Anything that's from any of the aforementioned companies is relabeled. There's only a handful of tube companies and they're either in the Eastern Block, Russia or China. If a company claims to have "their own" tube, chances are 99% it's commissioned and made in one of the same factories that produce JJ, Sovtek, Svetlana, TungSol or any of the Chinese tubes or it's simply relabeled.

It is what it is. Groove Tubes sifts through a lot of tubes through their testing/matching process which leads to a fair number of tubes that don't meet criteria. Tubes that don't meet criteria, are sold to other vendors - other vendors relabel and sell them at bargains. That's about the best "feeling" that you can get from buying GT is that the tubes you're buying at least went through some kind of QA process and met some established standard for a "good" tube. Many vendors who claim to match tubes just slap them in a tester and match solely on transconductance values. Companies that do premium matching do burn it and test on a variety of factors.

It's like anything else out there at the end of the day - you likely get what you pay for.

 

[ksmith63]

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

That makes more sense. thanks

 

[StillLearnin']

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

I thought groove tubes was the company that relabeled everyone else's, hence the higher price on just about everything.

Most Ruby tubes are about the cheapest thing you can find. Only thing lower in price are the bottom of the barrel sovteks.

Anything that's from any of the aforementioned companies is relabeled - Ruby does have some of their own however but still can be classified as relabeling in the strict sense of the phrase. There's only a handful of tube companies and they're either in the Eastern Block, Russia or China. If a company claims to have "their own" tube, chances are 99% it's commissioned and made in one of the same factories that produce JJ, Sovtek, Svetlana, TungSol or any of the Chinese tubes or it's simply relabeled (Ruby included).

It is what it is. Groove Tubes sifts through a lot of tubes through their testing/matching process which leads to a fair number of tubes that don't meet criteria. Tubes that don't meet criteria, are sold to other vendors - other vendors relabel and sell them at bargains. That's about the best "feeling" that you can get from buying GT is that the tubes you're buying at least went through some kind of QA process and met some established standard for a "good" tube. Many vendors who claim to match tubes just slap them in a tester and match solely on transconductance values. Companies that do premium matching do burn-in and test on a variety of factors.

It's like anything else out there at the end of the day - you likely get what you pay for.

 

[bancika]

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

You say it "sucks", but why exactly does it suck?

As a Mesa owner, I have no problem buying Mesa tubes. I actually appreciate the fact that I never need to bias my amp, or pay someone to do it. If Mesa tubes cost twice as much as other brands I might be pissed off, but they seem to be priced comparably to anything else out there (the last time I bought tubes, the Mesa EL34's were actually cheaper than the GT EL34's). In other words, its easier and more convenient, and I'm not put out by it in any way. Maybe I'm completely missing something here, but I fail to see how that sucks on any level.

I won't comment on the SLO issue because I don't really know what you're talking about (and I'm not sure you do either). If there is any similarity between an SLO and a Dual Rec other than the fact they're both 100 watt high gain heads, I'm not seeing it.

But that's the definition of monopoly, isn't it? They could stick a pot there, set it to whatever they have hardwired for their own tubes and let users decide. If you don't want to try other tubes just don't, but others would get that chance.

As for the DR. They copied the whole signal path from SLO, you don't call that similar? Open up a schematic for both amps and see what I'm talking about. Remove fancy switching and diamond plate cover and you have a SLO.

 

[Pink Unicorn Horsey]

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

But that's the definition of monopoly, isn't it?

I think what you're talking about is closer to the definition of "proprietary" than "monopolizing." I don't think anyone's restricted to using Mesa tubes only. Am I mistaken here?

 

[bancika]

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

you can use any other tubes but you won't be able to bias them to their optimal operation point.

 

[Pink Unicorn Horsey]

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

you can use any other tubes but you won't be able to bias them to their optimal operation point.

Unless they're made to the same specs as the Mesa tubes. I do hear what you're saying, though. I guess there are two ways of looking at it: convenient vs. inflexible.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

But that's the definition of monopoly, isn't it? They could stick a pot there, set it to whatever they have hardwired for their own tubes and let users decide. If you don't want to try other tubes just don't, but others would get that chance.

Randall Smith explained very clearly why there isn't a bias trimmer in his amps. It's a solution to a problem that guitarists have had for decades. If you don't like it, you are welcome to buy any other brand of amp (which you could not actually do in a monopoly situation). Personally I just want an amp that sounds great and works every time I turn it on, and my Stiletto fits the bill there.

As for the DR. They copied the whole signal path from SLO, you don't call that similar? Open up a schematic for both amps and see what I'm talking about. Remove fancy switching and diamond plate cover and you have a SLO.

Ha ... welcome to the world of guitar amplification. The SLO itself is essentially a modded Marshall Super Lead plexi (you do know what SLO stands for, right?), which is indirectly based on a Fender Bassman, yadda yadda yadda. There are only so many ways you can design an amplifier circuit. 90% of the amps out there are variations of either a Fender or a Marshall design (which themselves are a variation of a Fender design).

 

[StillLearnin']

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

Ha ... welcome to the world of guitar amplification. The SLO itself is essentially a modded Marshall Super Lead plexi (you do know what SLO stands for, right?), which is indirectly based on a Fender Bassman, yadda yadda yadda. There are only so many ways you can design an amplifier circuit. 90% of the amps out there are variations of either a Fender or a Marshall design (which themselves are a variation of a Fender design).

Yup :biglaugh:

 

[bancika]

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

I agree about fender, but R.S. has more patents than fender and marshall put together, it's rude to aggressively patent things if you borrow other people's ideas that much, which he does (Mark series are just hot rodded fenders, DR is a switchable SLO).

Cheers

 

[jeremy]

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

aggressive patenting behavior sucks

 

[bancika]

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

Randall Smith explained very clearly why there isn't a bias trimmer in his amps.

By clearly you mean "I R.S. the god proclaim the following" attitude?
When someone has great material interest from saying something I usually take that with a grain of salt. Do you think he wouldn't say the opposite thing if that can make him more money?

 

[Pink Unicorn Horsey]

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

By clearly you mean "I R.S. the god proclaim the following" attitude?
When someone has great material interest from saying something I usually take that with a grain of salt. Do you think he wouldn't say the opposite thing if that can make him more money?

Are you saying R.S. is biased?????

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Get it? "Biased"?

Woooooo!

That's my way of getting this thread back on topic.

- Keith

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

By clearly you mean "I R.S. the god proclaim the following" attitude?
When someone has great material interest from saying something I usually take that with a grain of salt. Do you think he wouldn't say the opposite thing if that can make him more money?

It's a solution. It's not a perfect solution. If you have a better idea for building an amp that never needs biasing, let's hear it.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Cathode Bias and Fixed Bias

Are you saying R.S. is biased?????

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Get it? "Biased"?

Woooooo!

That's my way of getting this thread back on topic.

- Keith

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