Ceramic magnet size difference

[Tomatofu]

Hi guys !
I have a custom in a LP. Tried the custom 8 and loved it, and then I tried a 1.5x size ceramic (5mm thick). It's really good, keeps the custom sound with some things more, it sounds bigger.

I wanted to know if a double thick ceramic (6mm) would sound even bigger or if there is no difference between them ? (I should have bought one with the other magnets cause it's expensive to import one to France...)

 

[Clint 55]

Yes, it'll have more of that effect.

 

[freefrog]

It's not really possible to generalize IMHO... Thicker magnets are often stronger magnetically but it's not always the case... and unlike a thicker AlNi(Co) bar, a thicker ceramic one won't increase the inductance (and therefore the sonic "thickness") of a pickup.

Beside that, a stronger magnetism doesn't systematically make a pickup bigger. With a single magnet and depending on the other components involved, it might make it just brighter...

So, to me, the only way to know is to try. YMMV.

 

[Supernautilus]

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but I was actually taking apart a cheap humbucker this past weekend and pulled a huge ceramic magnet, which I've never seen before. I measured the thickness and it's about 5mm, which I assume is the 1.5x size mentioned in the first post. I don't know anything about these "extra thick" magnets so this is new to me.

Where can I get more of these? And do they come in alnico? I looked a little bit online but I didn't see anything. All I've ever seen is the standard size humbucker mags. Any info would be super helpful, thanks.

 

[Tomatofu]

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but I was actually taking apart a cheap humbucker this past weekend and pulled a huge ceramic magnet, which I've never seen before. I measured the thickness and it's about 5mm, which I assume is the 1.5x size mentioned in the first post. I don't know anything about these "extra thick" magnets so this is new to me.

Where can I get more of these? And do they come in alnico? I looked a little bit online but I didn't see anything. All I've ever seen is the standard size humbucker mags. Any info would be super helpful, thanks.

I buy magnets at ceramag magnets, it's based in UK I think. I know you can get double thick alnico too just be careful with all the sizes (lenght, thickness, wideness,...).
A standard humbucker size should be 60 to 63 mm long and 12 mm wide.


I bought a 6.5mm ceramic, I'll see if it's even better than the 5mm one and I'll try an A5 in my aph1n too !

 

[Tomatofu]

Ok finally tried the double thick ceramic and there is a very Big difference with the 1,5x size. The bass is soo thick... Too much for me.

 

[freefrog]

IOW the double thick is noticeably more magnetized than the 1x5 one and spreads more than it the magnetic field on the low E string side. Seems logical since thicker magnets are most often more charged than thinner ones (the same thing happening for the same reason with triple ceramic magnets in Gibson 500T or DiMarzio X2N's, BTW).

If the bassrange becomes too thick in such a case, degaussing a tad the ceramic involved would seem the most logical solution, therefore. But it's difficult to adjust precisely the charge of a magnet without dedicated tools. So "airing" the pickup might be something to try (by pulling off the metallic keeper bar under the screw poles then putting a thin plastic spacer between them and the magnet . If the sound is still too bassy, try the spacer between the slugs and magnet, touching itself the screw poles. But put some soft adhesive tape between magnet and screw poles or the pickup might squeal).

 

[Tomatofu]

Thx for the answer, but I didn't have the courage to try all of that ahah went back to the regular custom, it was fun to experiment with it but its sound is probably the closest to what I'm wanting, maybe with the 1,5x ceramic but it's pretty close^^
But the best mag swap i did was an A4 in a aph1n. Now it's the perfect neck pickup for me, clean or high gain.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

IOW the double thick is noticeably more magnetized than the 1x5 one and spreads more than it the magnetic field on the low E string side. Seems logical since thicker magnets are most often more charged than thinner ones (the same thing happening for the same reason with triple ceramic magnets in Gibson 500T or DiMarzio X2N's, BTW).

If the bassrange becomes too thick in such a case, degaussing a tad the ceramic involved would seem the most logical solution, therefore. But it's difficult to adjust precisely the charge of a magnet without dedicated tools. So "airing" the pickup might be something to try (by pulling off the metallic keeper bar under the screw poles then putting a thin plastic spacer between them and the magnet . If the sound is still too bassy, try the spacer between the slugs and magnet, touching itself the screw poles. But put some soft adhesive tape between magnet and screw poles or the pickup might squeal).

The X2N is running on a single thick Ceramic magnet, FWIW. I just sold one. I think what maximizes the output are the blades. But it hasn't got as much Ceramic as a 500T or a Black Winter.

Not sure if they use the really tall coils on the X2N too, but some pickups like the D Activator and the Titan use taller coils than standard. That also maximizes how much wire they can fit in there.

 

[freefrog]

The X2N is running on a single thick Ceramic magnet, FWIW. I just sold one. I think what maximizes the output are the blades. But it hasn't got as much Ceramic as a 500T or a Black Winter.

Not sure if they use the really tall coils on the X2N too, but some pickups like the D Activator and the Titan use taller coils than standard. That also maximizes how much wire they can fit in there.

Yes, the thick blades surely maximize the output by rising the inductance (to 10H: a 500T "only" measures 7.8H).

Now... there's somewhere on our shelves a recent F-spaced X2N with fiber baseplate, recently dissected to experiment with a brass baseplate: in my memories, it hosted 3 ceramic bars, impossible to remove since they were glued to the coils.

Being tired by some health issues, I'll check this statement and share some pics if memory didn't betray me. TBH, an X2N with fiber baseplate is a PITA to open, since the soldering eyelets of its coils are at both ends of the baseplate (and the wires are brittle)...

Side note - whatever is the magnetic circuit used, I wouldn't swear "the" X2N hasn't changed with time: the black blade poles in recent models are apparently not made of the shiny blueish alloy that I had in my first X2N (bought in 1981)... DiMarzio has changed the baseplate, as I said. I wouldn't be surprised if they have "adapted" the X2N to contemporary needs, as they did with the DP103 - new ones differing from their first "PAF's" under a same name...

 

[freefrog]

Rex_Rocker ,

In the aforementioned X2N, the lateral bars are not exactly magnets, finally: they are ceramic spacers, with therefore a weaker magnetic field than the center bar. Pics in attached files (sorry, they're blurry, my fingers of senior did tremble). I did put one of the screws holding the coils on a lateral bar to test its magnetism.

My original statement was not totally right, therefore. Now, such a magnetic circuit still contributes to extend peripherically the magnetic field, in my mind.

Bobbins are 1 cm tall, BTW. Coils are apparently high of 7mm.

Did your previous X2N include ceramic spacers?

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Rex_Rocker ,

In the aforementioned X2N, the lateral bars are not exactly magnets, finally: they are ceramic spacers, with therefore a weaker magnetic field than the center bar. Pics in attached files (sorry, they're blurry, my fingers of senior did tremble). I did put one of the screws holding the coils on a lateral bar to test its magnetism.

My original statement was not totally right, therefore. Now, such a magnetic circuit still contributes to extend peripherically the magnetic field, in my mind.

Bobbins are 1 cm tall, BTW. Coils are apparently high of 7mm.

Did your previous X2N include ceramic spacers?

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Oh, so yours has smaller ceramic spacers than a 500T, which go all the way through, as opposed to these which are like only 1/4-1/3 the lenght of the blade?

I didn't peel off the tape all the way through on mine. I just peeled on one edge to peep under there to see if it had spacers the same as the 500T, and it didn't, so it would be entirely possible it coudld have had smaller magnetic spacers just the way yours has, since peeping on the edges wouldn't have revelead them.

Such a cool looking pickup. I really wanted to like it, it was just REALLY dark and bassy. I wonder if yours with the fiber baseplate would be any brighter since it doesn't have a huge chunk of brass jacking up the inductance further.​

 

[freefrog]

Oh, so yours has smaller ceramic spacers than a 500T, which go all the way through, as opposed to these which are like only 1/4-1/3 the lenght of the blade?

I didn't peel off the tape all the way through on mine. I just peeled on one edge to peep under there to see if it had spacers the same as the 500T, and it didn't, so it would be entirely possible it coudld have had smaller magnetic spacers just the way yours has, since peeping on the edges wouldn't have revelead them.

Such a cool looking pickup. I really wanted to like it, it was just REALLY dark and bassy. I wonder if yours with the fiber baseplate would be any brighter since it doesn't have a huge chunk of brass jacking up the inductance further.​

Yes, these spacers are smaller than in a 500T.

And yes, the X2N is certainly darker / bassier than most other pickups (I've not measured many full sized HB's in the 10H range). That said, it works fine with some guitars and amps. The first time I've heard it in my life, it didn't seem dark to me. The player and guitar were the following ones and I recall the tone as similar, although I was practically deaf after this Motorhead session.

https://youtu.be/7JomNEFUyEg?si=_MKRb2fMSVMjlMwg

Finally, yes, The fiber baseplate makes it clearer (rather than brighter) although in fact the PU has even more inductance in the absence of eddy currents. But it sounds more sterile to me : I prefer the organic mess that I hear from a X2N with brass baseplate. YMMV. ;-)