Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…

XSSIVE

OCDologist
Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…

There will be NO sugar coating here folks and there will even be some nit picking!!

I got to pick up my black san dimas model 1 from the new Charvel production model series today and thought I’d give a bit of an in depth look at it vs the custom shop I own and the TMZ natural mahogany I also own. Now I say vs but I don’t really mean it since the prices of these guitars don’t make it fair at all to compare them but just to clear up some foolish things I’ve read on some forums I will compare them in some areas. To clear one thing up right away you have to be a flat out idiot to think these production models are anywhere near the caliber of guitar that the custom shop guitars are or even the TMZ natural series. I’ve read people say they can’t see a difference (or similar comments) and please stop taking advice on guitars from these people because it’s obvious they have no idea what they are talking about if they think that. that said, I’ll also give you an inside look at the guts of the pro-mod since I had it stripped on my bench today getting to the bottom of it.

Start off on a bit of a bad note, the finish…mine is black, the hardest color to keep clean as we all know which is very easy to get fine swirl marks all over from polishing it…no big deal I knew that going in. however out of the box the guitar was a bit dingy and dull looking as was the other black model 1 I got to pick from (thankfully I got to pick between two and see how they vary) both had this slightly dull finish that I figured was just from shipping and would clean right up with some spray polish when I got home….WRONG!!! once I got it into better lights I realized it was one giant swirl mark, loads of fine scratches from the buffing machine, just a real piss poor job of buffing out the paint. A very rushed buffing job for sure. So that’s when the fun started and I decided to gut the guitar and buff out the body with my buffing wheel. After buffing it out it’s now a 9 out of 10. Before buffing about a 4 out of 10…pure suck. Don’t get me wrong the paint quality itself is good, no drips or runs or anything like that, it was the buffing job that sucked you could see the marks from the wheel and it had a dull haze to it…yuk. Moving on but continuing with the body, I’m a bit sad to see that they didn’t veneer the body front and back like they do on a typical strat to hide the seams of the joined wood that make up the body…in this case 3pc body. If you hold the guitar on an angle you catch a glimpse of these seams. No major big deal to me I’m just stating the facts here and am only slightly bummed they didn’t veneer them like they do on fenders. Thankfully it’s nice and light an resonant, no complaints there seems to be 3 good slabs of tuneful wood that make it up.

Hardware…this certainly isn’t a real deal Floyd rose and it’s not a ping Floyd either from what I can tell. It must be some Chinese or Korean made knock off. It’s not bad but certainly not OFR quality. It stays in tune well but you can tell where corners are cut. Even the block is a bit jagged and sharp…not that you touch it…just stating that it is. It was also (as typical with cheap black hardware) a dingy and dull black out of the box like it was never buffed to a shine…I guess that’s so it matches the dull swirled body paint? LOL. So I took a few minutes to polish it up with some swirl remover and it was looking minty fresh (see pics)! The only other complaint I have with it so far is that the bar comes loose real easy. I like to set my bars a little stiff so they don’t swing all over and if I do that with this after using the bar once and bumping it back down out of the way it’s fully loose and swinging. I’ll look into this more later to see if I can fix that.

The pickups and wiring...real duncans, jb & 59, no complaint there they sound great the JB rarely lets me down and the 59 is a solid choice for the neck! The wiring, I had a broken ground on both pickups out of the box, just a poor soldering job that came loose. No big deal I was swapping out that ghetto toggle switch for an all black on anyway. On that note, It was a nice effort on trying to recreate the metal toggle tip as used on the 80s san dimas pointy head charvels and Jackson but man were they way off on the size and shape from a real one…check the pics of it next to the toggle from my real ’84 san dimas pointy. Yeah I’m nit picking/screw counting a bit here but I just want to point it all out. It’s certainly not the end of the world and a personal preference if you like it or not. However, a broken ground is still not something you want to find on a new guitar for average joe who can’t work on a guitar himself. For me it was no big deal since I knew that switch was a goner before the guitar even got home. The pot seems fine, nice even taper and it even has a brass shaft…we all know brass means better lol.

Continued….
 
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Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…

My most HATED piece of hardware…the knob…what f-ing idiot at charvel picked that stupid thing for these guitars come with? he needs to be fired or at least banned from making decisions. I took it off real fast and swapped on the nice black dome knob you see in the pics. I can’t imagine anyone actually liking that knob and keeping it on the guitar. Thankfully nice black metal dome knobs are cheap so it’s an easy fix.

The tuners…well, they work just fine, no complaint there… but I’m not a fan of the penis head looking grovers at all….seriously they look like swollen man meat hahaha. they’ll get swapped for some schallers or gotohs due to my obsessive compulsive nature for perfection even when it comes to petty aesthetics. Again, just me nit picking, the grovers tune the guitar just fine.

Lock nut…works just fine, no issue here. Obviously again not real Floyd (it’s marked BR3) but it works…even if it needed some sandpaper shims to get to the right height. The shims were from the factory, not me. I shim my Floyd nuts with proper metal shims that are made for just that use. I’m not against using a shim and it is a budget guitar so finding some sandpaper shims in there was no big deal. My GMW came with a sliver of white cardboard under the nut to raise it up and my TMZ natural the same, thin white paper/cardboard. My custom shop charvel on the other hand…no shim needed. I use shims on my Clone brand guitars now and again so I can fine tune the action, so again finding a shim isn’t the end of the world….just pointing out my findings.

Frets this is where my Clone brand guitars, my GMW, my past Wayne, my TMZ natural and my custom shop charvel all KILL this thing in quality. The frets are OK and OK at best. They are very much playable but nowhere near my standard of good fret work. I didn’t expect them to be though and fully plan to level and dress it at the next string change…I just did a quick dress of a few problem areas and a polish with some steel wool and it’s VERY playable with no buzz or anything sharp hurting your hands. They were they covered in a film from what I guess was the oil used on the neck but they had a few spots where they weren’t dressed even and smooth some 1000 grit and steel wool fixed that 1-2-3 for now. Put it this way if you’re one of those guys who sadly thinks you can play a warmoth or USACG or Musikraft neck out of the box with no fret dress or level you’ll love these frets. They are on par with a typical USA made fender I’d say…not the best but not perfect by all means. If you play custom shop charvels and custom shop fenders or Andersons and Suhrs or any guitars on that level forget it and bust out the level and dress tools because these won’t be up to your standards!! If you play modern gibsons or modern fenders these are right along that alley…hit or miss, pretty good, playable with potential after at least a dress. Again, there’s no buzz or sharp ends, they are just done sloppy, a little flat spot here an overly round spot there scratch marks on the edges and tops from crowing and not polishing them out fully. All things you find on a typical production line guitar like a strat or les paul even. Hell some Gibsons I’ve seen lately suck FAR FAR worse than these!! Corners need to be cut and time saved so these don’t get the attention that their big brothers in the custom shop get and don’t fool yourself into thinking they do or they should….they are budget production line guitars! Again, they are nowhere near a custom shop or TMZ natural, don’t be fooled by foolish posters who think they are. Odds are they’ve only seen pictures of custom shop charvels. Also keep in mind I got to go to the music zoo and see them and pick mine out so this just isn’t based on my one and only guitar. The first thing I looked at when comparing the black ones they had in stock were the frets and mine were better than the other. Right now all I did was a quick dress of a few problem areas and hit them up with some 0000 steel wool and they are very playable until the next string change when I go all out on them. Hey, I wanted to play the thing not work on it all day hahaha.

Continued…
 
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Neck shape another area they differ in. the one I picked from the zoo had a bit of an extra roll to the finger board edge which I liked. The shape falls in a C to D range where it’s not as flat a D as my TMZ or custom shop charvel it’s a bit more round (but I wouldn’t jump to call it a C either) and it’s also thicker being .790” at the 1st and .850” at the 12th. It’s a very comfortable neck, no complaints here since truth be told the standard neck shape on my Clone brand guitars (which is based off my past Wayne with the original neck) is .790” - .850” it’s also in the ballpark of the Suhr Reb Beach neck in terms of thickness. A+ on the shape from me! As for the wood, it does seem to be ¼ sawn as stated but it’s certainly B stock ¼ sawn. It’s NOT the stuff they use on custom shop models or fender uses on the Eric Johnson guitars for example. It’s nice, but you can tell it’s not the best since the grain isn’t super tight and digital looking like real high quality ¼ sawn. It also has a decent amount of mineral stains and small areas where there were grain imperfections that were filled. Nothing major but another cost cutting area…you didn’t think they were using the best wood on these did you? It’s a step up from a typical strat that’s for sure but again not on the level of the better guitars. The neck on the one I chose had a better grain pattern and less stains and fills, the other one was acceptable but mine was the better of the two IMO.

One thing that did bum me out that I need to fix is the neck pocket angle…it’s way too steep forcing you to float the Floyd a bit which I hate. This is another quick fix with a router to decrease the angle but not something I got into today (again I wanted to play it) but I will do it down the road. My custom shop charvel, TMZ charvel, past wayne, my GMW and all my Clone brand guitars have the correct neck angle that puts the Floyd flat on the body of the guitar making it dive only which is the way I like it. some may dispute this and say these are correct and in all honestly this is a situation where it would be based on the players taste. I like my floyds flat on the body just like my custom shop charvel came and thus the router will be going after this neck pocket to match it to the specs of all my other non recessed floyded guitars. I’m not sure why they decided to go with the steeper pocket angle giving the pull up since charvel are loved by most people for being dive only with the Floyd resting on the body to aid in tuning changes (drop D by using the fine tuner) it also keeps the other strings in tune if a string breaks and increase resonance and sustain with the base of the trem resting on the body.

This turned into a bit more of a project than I thought it would be but I love projects like this to be honest! That’s why I started my Clone brand since I love working on guitars! At the price I paid (well under $999 is all I’ll say) it was a kick ass deal even with all the work I did and having to buff out the body. If I had paid full $999 for it I’d be a bit more upset that’s for sure and may have even thought about taking it back before tearing it down to buff it out and clean up the frets and fix the ground wire. I think they’re a great bang for the buck but NO WHERE even remotely near the quality of the TMZ naturals or custom shop charvels. If you want quality you have to pay for it!! Again if someone says they are just like the customs or the naturals please stop taking advice from them because they are clueless as to what makes a good guitar. I’m very happy with the guitar and it’s now certainly a player that sounds great. Resonates real well, no fret buzz and even with the Floyd having to float a bit it’s nice and full sounding. How does it sound ??? like an alder super strat with a maple neck a Floyd and a JB in the bridge….you’ve all heard it before and there’s no magic here it falls in line with that typical sound in everyone’s head. It’s a real solid guitar that had some minor quirks that were an easy fix.

Continued…
 
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…

Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…

If you’re getting one I’d say go into it knowing if you get black odds are you’re going to need to do some polishing, I just went overboard since I have a buffer, odds are the candy colors won’t be as bad since they hide swirls unlike black which shows them all. Both of the black ones I looked at today were pretty bad though. This was disappointing since I’ve had black MIJ, MIM and MIA fenders and NONE had a finish this swirled and dull out of the box. Also at least take some 0000 steel wool to the frets on the first set up to get rid of the film on the frets from the factory (see pics). on that note…out of the box it was actually playable and nearly in tune, a plus I guess but don’t kid yourself about playing it or any guitar out of the box, plan on doing a set up to fit your needs. it comes with 9s on it and I can’t play them so a set up and string change was a must for me no matter what. Just keep in mind these are budget production line guitars just like a typical USA made strat so go into it knowing a few tweaks will be needed. If you expect custom shop quality out of these you’re flat out delusional and should seek help.

Now on to the pics, lots of gut shots and parts comparison pics for the screw counters :D

The naked body after buffing to a perfect shine…
pm1.jpg


Neck pocket markings (built 3 days before my birthday on May 21…cool)…
pm2.jpg


Heel sticker…
pm3.jpg


Headstock face (no nut)…
pm4.jpg


Headstock back with horrid grovers…yeah I hate these ugly ass tuners:p also, that’s just a sticker from fender, it comes right off don’t worry…
pm5.jpg


Body with the pickups back in and new all black toggle and new dome knob (much better!!!)…
pm6.jpg


“Floyd” yeah I used “ “ marks on that hahaha…
All dirty and dull before I cleaned it…
pm7.jpg


After a good cleaning…
pm8.jpg


Bottom shots and #’s…
pm9.jpg

pm10.jpg

pm11.jpg


Continued….
 
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Now for some Floyd comparisons, the cheapie on the pro-mod next to a real Floyd from my 1984 san dimas Charvel…
Real 80s Floyd on the right in all pics…
pm12.jpg

pm13.jpg

pm14.jpg

Notice the different saddle shapes…
pm15.jpg


Bottom of the lock nut “BR3”…
pm16.jpg


Real Floyd stud on the right…
pm18.jpg

pm19.jpg


Nice try on the toggle tip but WAY off on the size and shape, shown next to my toggle from my 1984 san dimas charvel…
pm17.jpg


Frets…can you tell which ones I polished here??
pm20.jpg


Close up of sloppy factory dressing before polishing…notice the flat spots on the tops of the far two frets VS the more rounded top of the closest fret. This is just one example and the flat/round varies from fret to fret. thankfully the frets on mine were better than the other one, it had more of an uneven dress. A quick fix with a dressing for me but may piss those of you off who don’t know how to dress frets. Again, they don’t buzz and they feel ok, it’s just sloppy work that you should honestly expect on a guitar being cranked out on a production line, don’t fool yourself. You need to think of these in the same ballpark as a typical USA made fender, hit or miss off the line.
pm21.jpg


Neck shape…
pm22.jpg


All together playing and looking great!
pma.jpg


pmb.jpg


pmc.jpg


pmd.jpg


pme.jpg


Overall I’m real happy I bought it since I intended it to be a project in upgrading parts and such and also bought it as a player that I don’t need to worry about. It plays great as is but after I dress the frets and take care of that neck pocket angle I know I’ll be even more happy with it.


*NOTE as of March 2010 : part of this review no longer holds true and NONE of my Charvel pro-mods since this one have had ANY of these little issues aside from that dumb ass knob LOL and neck pocket angle.*


-Mike
 
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Thats an awesome review man. Ive never really taken apart a production model guitar like that before and really torn into it. I put all the care and skill i have into the ones i build but i cant say ive transferred that into analyzing an off the wall guitar.

I gotta say though, i have bought several necks from USACG and honestly found the fret work to be perfect out of the box, i cannot say the same for warmoth however. It is possible that ive just been lucky with the necks ive bought, but they have blown any USA built guitar ive laid hands on out of the water. I am gonna step up and say i have never owned a true custom shop built guitar though.

Anyways, awesome review, great pics as always, and i thoroughly enjoyed reading it. I wont be buying one, but i was never planning on since i hate floydy pointy things.

Cheers
 
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Wow, that is a pretty in depth review!!! Looks like I'll have some work to do. I'll get it up to par though !!!
 
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Incredible thread, Mike. :bigok: I think I'll stick with the Clones. :)
 
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glad you guys took the time to actually read it lol. that took forever to get together with taking pics during the tear down then the final shoot then the write up and the editing of the pics...way too much work LOL. however now like all my guitars i know it inside and out. i actually do this to all my guitars just without the pics every time. i do have neck pocket pics of all my guitars though to show the markings and such.

PF...that's always nice to hear man, thanks!!

-Mike
 
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Man, when you say in depth you mean it! Excellent thread!!!

Two questions.

250K or 500K pot?

PolyU or PolyE finish?
 
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Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…

yeah man i went real crazy since myself and some others on the charvel forums can be screw counters at times so i figured why not spill all the beans and take pics of every little bit.

the finish is polyurethane and the pot 500K.


-Mike
 
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Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…

Mike........... its got 2 pickups???? What are you going to do with2??
 
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Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…

Holy Crap!! What a review man. You should be writing for Guitar Player or something.
 
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Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…

Ok, this is too much for me to read right now so I'll get through it all tomorrow morning with my breakfast...lol.

Looks sharp, Mike.
 
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Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…

Great close up shot of the frets. Did you get a shot of the control cavity? Just wondering if they used any shielding paint in there.
 
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Thanks Mike!

Your opinion was the only one I was waiting on to make a decision.
 
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Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…

Holy Crap!! What a review man. You should be writing for Guitar Player or something.

+1, could make sum extra coin on the side!

Wicked review man, im now wondering after people actually get these that we "may" see alot loaded off to ebay after a wee while?
Alot of people who will be getting their hands on these im guessing will already be charvel lovers and be used to there high QC on both the U.S and MIJ models
of the past and may be "slightly" dissapointed in what they receive.

In saying that it is a good deal on a good "players" guitar as you've spec'd out
after a few minor mods.

Again great review, and as always PIMPIN pics!
 
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Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…

Dave...i'll bring it saturday so you can check it out and tech me what to do with that extra pickup LOL.

Jolly...everything i do is XSSIVE...hence the name hehe.

Erik...hey, i said IN DEPTH and i wasn't kidding :p

gOgIver...you know, i forgot the cavity pics. i tried to remember all the areas but blanked on the cavities...whoops. nothing pretty in there anyway, the usual left over buffing compound in the nooks and crannies. as for shielding paint they seem to be like fenders, a bit sporadic with the shielding and some of it seems to be under the main color and clear coat. you can see some of it in the pickup cavities in the first two pics where the ground wires are.

-Mike
 
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Ayrton...if you're looking for a perfect guitar...spend more lol. if you want a bad ass player and are willing to take some steel wool to the frets and perhaps some polish to the body if you're picky then you'll be happy with this. i nit picked on things like the knob they come with and the black and chrome toggle and switched them since they are cheap and easy to fix but overall i can say they are a good bang for the buck. when they start to come up used they'll be a real steal. i'm used to high quality guitars so i knew going in i wouldn't be happy out of the box but i would be happy after some elbow grease and a few tweaks.

Justice4all..thanks for the kind words. i look at these like a typical USA made strat. a players guitar with potential to be great if you put the time in and OK if you just play it out of the box. if you want the real deal you need to spend more just like ANY guitar out there from fender charvel, jackson, gibson, martin, guild etc etc. everyone has the production line and the customs and you get what you pay for. these certainly aren't junk they are very much players guitars but to get to this price point everyone needs to remember corners do need to be cut to save cash. thankfully the foundation of the guitar is strong and gives you room to upgrade and tweak as you please. it's not like starting with a squier and just polishing a turd with poor quality bodies and necks, this one has a good body and neck and that's where the strong foundation is that leads to its potential.

as i play it more...very nice neck feel and shape and the 59 in the neck is real cool!

-Mike
 
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Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…

Incredible review bro! Nice job. Pics are impressive as heLL! I gotta tell you bro, I had 5 in my hands today and none had the flaws on yours. I saw them pull the guitars right out of the box. They were polished, no inconsistencies in the frets, paint was polished, no seams visible at any angle. Everything was spot on. The setups weren't bad either. Nothing really wrong w the setup except one where the FR bridge was not set level. Two screws of a hex wrench and fixed.

I actually love the grip of the vol knob. Works very well. Not slippery like my other guitars. No static from the controls. Everything sounded fine. It does not look like an Original Floyd Rose however it is an official Floyd Rose from what I have compared. Works great. No issues with the quality of it. All 5 were polished and in great shape.

I didn't like the JB & 59 combo as much as the Tone Zone & Evolution, SURPRISINGLY! The JB was kind of bland and the 59 was too bassy. The tech adjusted the pickup height but only made a slight improvement. I don't think that combo was the right choice for this guitar. I wish they wen't with something a little more over the top. Stil sounded good but a pickup upgrade is in order.

What is your opinion on the So-Cal model?
 
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