Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
- Thread starter XSSIVE
- Start date
XSSIVE
OCDologist
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
forgot to add one thing....
fingerboard edge roll.
here is a pic of the pro-mod (black hardware) compared to my TMZ natural (chrome) which is pretty much the same as my custom shop charvel. you can see how different the shape is and how drastic the roll is on the pro-mod vs the much more subtle roll of the natural.
you can really notice the difference at the nut.
pro-mod...
TMZ natural...
-Mike
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
forgot to add one thing....
fingerboard edge roll.
here is a pic of the pro-mod (black hardware) compared to my TMZ natural (chrome) which is pretty much the same as my custom shop charvel. you can see how different the shape is and how drastic the roll is on the pro-mod vs the much more subtle roll of the natural.
you can really notice the difference at the nut.
pro-mod...
TMZ natural...
-Mike
SAVAGE DISTORTION
New member
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
it is a floyd made in korea.
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
my sentiments exactly! Very nice detail and I appreciate the honest assessment of flaws. Some mag reviews sound very much like they are kissing up for advertising dollars.
Ive been getting the common issue of frets not well dressed. Id still like to have one, but I know now that Im not going to sacrifice my model 4s for one.
Thanks alot Mike! Ill reread later as Im in a hurry, and will prob have questions..
I must say, from the moment I first saw pics, I thought that was about the ugliest friggin knob on the planet. Must have got a fantastic deal on a lot of those
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
my sentiments exactly! Very nice detail and I appreciate the honest assessment of flaws. Some mag reviews sound very much like they are kissing up for advertising dollars.
Ive been getting the common issue of frets not well dressed. Id still like to have one, but I know now that Im not going to sacrifice my model 4s for one.
Thanks alot Mike! Ill reread later as Im in a hurry, and will prob have questions..
I must say, from the moment I first saw pics, I thought that was about the ugliest friggin knob on the planet. Must have got a fantastic deal on a lot of those
Dru Edwards
New member
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Mike - excellent review! I read it all. I appreciate the fact that you put it into many different posts instead of one giant one, much easier to read. Great buffing job on the finish! I hope my local guitar shop gets one in so I can try one.
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Mike - excellent review! I read it all. I appreciate the fact that you put it into many different posts instead of one giant one, much easier to read. Great buffing job on the finish! I hope my local guitar shop gets one in so I can try one.
XSSIVE
OCDologist
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
jmh151...i've dealt with MANY floyds and i can 150% say it is NOT a real german made floyd. it has several differences from the real one...hence why i took pics next to a real one. it doesn't even say made in germany on the bottom for the obvious clue it's made elsewhere.
SAVAGE...i think you're correct. korea or china, certainly not germany.
BloodRose...yeah i didn't want to BS people because i've read people say that these are just as good as the customs and the naturals from TMZ and that's just a joke.
grumpy...thanks!
Dru...thanks for taking the time to actually read it all hehehe.
*****************************
another note!! the finish on mine and the other black style 1 i got to pick from both had swirls but this may be an isolated incident so please don't fear that. like i said production model guitars from any company (have you seen all the complaining about gibson lately lol) can vary. the frets however it seems i'm not the only one that needed to take some steel wool to them since they have a film over them from the factory. no biggie, every maple neck fender has a layer of poly over the frets and that stuff is a NIGHTMARE to get off the frets. at least this oil comes off real easy with some 0000 steel wool and you're good to go. also my ground wire is an isolated incident, don't worry about that.
i should also note i work under fluorescent lights in my shop so i can see ever little flaw on a guitar an the frets and finish. i do this on purpose so nothing is hidden or missed. under natural light and tungsten bulbs everything was much better...but still not perfect.
-Mike
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
jmh151...i've dealt with MANY floyds and i can 150% say it is NOT a real german made floyd. it has several differences from the real one...hence why i took pics next to a real one. it doesn't even say made in germany on the bottom for the obvious clue it's made elsewhere.
SAVAGE...i think you're correct. korea or china, certainly not germany.
BloodRose...yeah i didn't want to BS people because i've read people say that these are just as good as the customs and the naturals from TMZ and that's just a joke.
grumpy...thanks!
Dru...thanks for taking the time to actually read it all hehehe.
*****************************
another note!! the finish on mine and the other black style 1 i got to pick from both had swirls but this may be an isolated incident so please don't fear that. like i said production model guitars from any company (have you seen all the complaining about gibson lately lol) can vary. the frets however it seems i'm not the only one that needed to take some steel wool to them since they have a film over them from the factory. no biggie, every maple neck fender has a layer of poly over the frets and that stuff is a NIGHTMARE to get off the frets. at least this oil comes off real easy with some 0000 steel wool and you're good to go. also my ground wire is an isolated incident, don't worry about that.
i should also note i work under fluorescent lights in my shop so i can see ever little flaw on a guitar an the frets and finish. i do this on purpose so nothing is hidden or missed. under natural light and tungsten bulbs everything was much better...but still not perfect.
-Mike
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Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
That's an excellent review!i went to the Charvel forum,nobody like the volume knob.I own one of the MZ natural one and i don't think i will buying
a production model,but if i did not have one i would considare getting a mod 1
Also after owning close to 50 guitars,the MZ is the only one that came from the factory,that i did not need to set-up.
And when played um-amplified is the most resonant guitar i have.
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
That's an excellent review!i went to the Charvel forum,nobody like the volume knob.I own one of the MZ natural one and i don't think i will buying
a production model,but if i did not have one i would considare getting a mod 1
Also after owning close to 50 guitars,the MZ is the only one that came from the factory,that i did not need to set-up.
And when played um-amplified is the most resonant guitar i have.
jmh151
Active member
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
I read somewhere that Floyd Rose was going to be manufacturing Original Floyds in China, but I thought those were the Ping versions with the laser etched logo. Either way, if it doesn't say Made in Germany on it, it's not an original schaller made Floyd.
I'm trying to figure out- how come alot of the imports- like Schecter, LTD, etc.., can afford original Floyds on their $700 guitars, but Charvel couldn't manage to put it on this $999 series?
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
I read somewhere that Floyd Rose was going to be manufacturing Original Floyds in China, but I thought those were the Ping versions with the laser etched logo. Either way, if it doesn't say Made in Germany on it, it's not an original schaller made Floyd.
I'm trying to figure out- how come alot of the imports- like Schecter, LTD, etc.., can afford original Floyds on their $700 guitars, but Charvel couldn't manage to put it on this $999 series?
XSSIVE
OCDologist
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
open...yeah that knob was a real bad choice. my TMZ natural is a kick ass guitar and right there knocking on the door of my custom shop in terms of quality.
jmh151...ping floyds have brass blocks and a little ping logo (laser etched, not engraved) in front of the mount for the bar...like this...
the ones on the charvels are not original german or ping made that's 100% for sure. they seem OK so far but you can tell they are cheaper.
as for how imports can use real floyds...that's the answer right there..IMPORT. the charvels are USA made (some rumors say some stuff is done in the mexican fender factory and they are finished up being built in the USA though...i don't know) but they're sold as USA made which increases production costs and the hardware suffers to make up for it and get them down into the price range of schecter and ltd and such.
-Mike
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
open...yeah that knob was a real bad choice. my TMZ natural is a kick ass guitar and right there knocking on the door of my custom shop in terms of quality.
jmh151...ping floyds have brass blocks and a little ping logo (laser etched, not engraved) in front of the mount for the bar...like this...
the ones on the charvels are not original german or ping made that's 100% for sure. they seem OK so far but you can tell they are cheaper.
as for how imports can use real floyds...that's the answer right there..IMPORT. the charvels are USA made (some rumors say some stuff is done in the mexican fender factory and they are finished up being built in the USA though...i don't know) but they're sold as USA made which increases production costs and the hardware suffers to make up for it and get them down into the price range of schecter and ltd and such.
-Mike
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Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
XSSIVE GREAT review man. Very much appreciated, as I'm quite interested in those guitars.
I've been reading the Charvel forums too. I think we can honestly say that the bottom line is a good bang for your buck if you want a super strat. May need a set up or fret dressing out of the box, but honestly none of that is insanely expensive and can be expected with most producting models. Other things like the volume nob are easy and inexpensive to replace, but realy dont' affect the playability which is what I assess right out of the box. Is it playable from the manufacturer?
The thing that actually concerns me the most is that grounding issue you mentioned. Personally, I can (and have) wire up a guitar, so that would be no problem for me. But for the average joe who doesn't solder etc., that's kind of a big issue and could affect the playability right out of the box. I wonder if others have had that same issue.
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
XSSIVE GREAT review man. Very much appreciated, as I'm quite interested in those guitars.
I've been reading the Charvel forums too. I think we can honestly say that the bottom line is a good bang for your buck if you want a super strat. May need a set up or fret dressing out of the box, but honestly none of that is insanely expensive and can be expected with most producting models. Other things like the volume nob are easy and inexpensive to replace, but realy dont' affect the playability which is what I assess right out of the box. Is it playable from the manufacturer?
The thing that actually concerns me the most is that grounding issue you mentioned. Personally, I can (and have) wire up a guitar, so that would be no problem for me. But for the average joe who doesn't solder etc., that's kind of a big issue and could affect the playability right out of the box. I wonder if others have had that same issue.
XSSIVE
OCDologist
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Jeff...i sound like a broken record but it's the truth, i wanted to do a review and be 100% honest and even point out my nit pick areas of things i did like based on aesthetics...heck i'm a graphic designer and photographer i get paid to stress the details, how could i not stress them on an in depth review. also i said it several times, the knob the toggle, the tuners...all subjective things i personally dislike and don't change the way the guitar plays at all...if people like them GREAT, i didn't and i changed them. it is very playable out of the box...BUT...not to sound like a guitar snob but i will...i'm used to a much higher level of guitar so i knew going in this would be lower and i'm fine with that.
bottom line, if the buyer is a guy who owns import charvels from the past (model series) and import jacksons and usa or mij or mim fenders or schecters he will LOVE this and it's on par with the best of those. if the buyer owns custom shop charvels and jacksons or usa jacksons or suhrs and andersons and PRS usa made guitars he will need to put some time in on the frets and set-up and then be happy with it. if you're used to those high end guitars don't fool yourself into thinking this is on that level, it's just not and it's not meant to be. again, it's not meant to be but people keep trying to compare it to them so i did the same...but HONESTLY. it's a darn good guitar and a real player that i'm happy to have in the heard!
as for the ground, that i'm sure was an isolated incident on my guitar....just my luck lol.
-Mike
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Jeff...i sound like a broken record but it's the truth, i wanted to do a review and be 100% honest and even point out my nit pick areas of things i did like based on aesthetics...heck i'm a graphic designer and photographer i get paid to stress the details, how could i not stress them on an in depth review. also i said it several times, the knob the toggle, the tuners...all subjective things i personally dislike and don't change the way the guitar plays at all...if people like them GREAT, i didn't and i changed them. it is very playable out of the box...BUT...not to sound like a guitar snob but i will...i'm used to a much higher level of guitar so i knew going in this would be lower and i'm fine with that.
bottom line, if the buyer is a guy who owns import charvels from the past (model series) and import jacksons and usa or mij or mim fenders or schecters he will LOVE this and it's on par with the best of those. if the buyer owns custom shop charvels and jacksons or usa jacksons or suhrs and andersons and PRS usa made guitars he will need to put some time in on the frets and set-up and then be happy with it. if you're used to those high end guitars don't fool yourself into thinking this is on that level, it's just not and it's not meant to be. again, it's not meant to be but people keep trying to compare it to them so i did the same...but HONESTLY. it's a darn good guitar and a real player that i'm happy to have in the heard!
as for the ground, that i'm sure was an isolated incident on my guitar....just my luck lol.
-Mike
jmh151
Active member
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Mike- I thank you for your review. IMO, Charvel should do what Suhr did to make a budget model- take a handful of specs that everyone wants, and build them side by side with the Custom shop, the same thing Jackson does with standard production. However, it probably won't come in at the $999 price point. I was anxious about this guitar, but figure I might just get Musikraft parts and build one myself.
Mike- how does the neck and fretwork compare to your old Music Man?
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Mike- I thank you for your review. IMO, Charvel should do what Suhr did to make a budget model- take a handful of specs that everyone wants, and build them side by side with the Custom shop, the same thing Jackson does with standard production. However, it probably won't come in at the $999 price point. I was anxious about this guitar, but figure I might just get Musikraft parts and build one myself.
Mike- how does the neck and fretwork compare to your old Music Man?
XSSIVE
OCDologist
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
jmh151...well that's what these are supposed to be, the budget model of the customs and the TMZ naturals i guess would fall into the mid level. the suhrs are still on the next level up since the attention to detail of a small shop is much higher. plus they use better hardware with sperzels and gotoh floyds and they use the plek machine to dress and level the frets so obviously those are a step up. these are a great platform to play or to mod...buyers choice. like i said if you decide to upgrade it you're not polishing a turd, you're making a good guitar better and not wasting your money.
as for the neck/frets compared to the axis, well the neck size and shape are vastly different but the finish is similar. the axis was a more dry finish, less oil. this is a bit more slick feeling...either works for me. my GMW is more dry and my charvels are more slick. the more tru-oil you use the harder and smoother the finish gets and the less grain you feel. as for the frets, the axis had great fret work out of the box, no need to touch those just like the TMZ and the custom and my bullseye charvel too. these frets don't suck on the pro-mod they're just production line frets where again time is saved doing them quicker and some guitars will be perfect and some have little flaws...i'll point my finger and gibson and fender again since their production models are much the same way. not bad, very playable but not on the level of custom shop guitars.
-Mike
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
jmh151...well that's what these are supposed to be, the budget model of the customs and the TMZ naturals i guess would fall into the mid level. the suhrs are still on the next level up since the attention to detail of a small shop is much higher. plus they use better hardware with sperzels and gotoh floyds and they use the plek machine to dress and level the frets so obviously those are a step up. these are a great platform to play or to mod...buyers choice. like i said if you decide to upgrade it you're not polishing a turd, you're making a good guitar better and not wasting your money.
as for the neck/frets compared to the axis, well the neck size and shape are vastly different but the finish is similar. the axis was a more dry finish, less oil. this is a bit more slick feeling...either works for me. my GMW is more dry and my charvels are more slick. the more tru-oil you use the harder and smoother the finish gets and the less grain you feel. as for the frets, the axis had great fret work out of the box, no need to touch those just like the TMZ and the custom and my bullseye charvel too. these frets don't suck on the pro-mod they're just production line frets where again time is saved doing them quicker and some guitars will be perfect and some have little flaws...i'll point my finger and gibson and fender again since their production models are much the same way. not bad, very playable but not on the level of custom shop guitars.
-Mike
gOgIver
New member
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Thanks for showing those rolled edge comparisons.
Do those "34" ,"37" etc numbers on the Floyd blocks mean anything?
Zerb wrote once that the modern OFR blocks (not sure if he said all) are brass but have a nickel coating, so people mistake them for steel. Always wondered about that, if there is an easy "tell".
Interesting point about adjusting the neck pitch to taste. Is the pocket cut "wrong", that is did you need to shim to get the correct angle?
edit: okay, missed the part about the router, sorry.
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Thanks for showing those rolled edge comparisons.
Do those "34" ,"37" etc numbers on the Floyd blocks mean anything?
Zerb wrote once that the modern OFR blocks (not sure if he said all) are brass but have a nickel coating, so people mistake them for steel. Always wondered about that, if there is an easy "tell".
Interesting point about adjusting the neck pitch to taste. Is the pocket cut "wrong", that is did you need to shim to get the correct angle?
edit: okay, missed the part about the router, sorry.
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KeeperOS
New member
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Oh man, and that right there was just what I was afraid more, GAS is knocking on my door, heck it's even knocking the windows as well, and I live on the 3rd floor!!!:9:
Yeah, I pretty much expected that a pro setup and fret dress/polish/whatever would be in order, I now take this for granted for every guitar I'm thinking of buying
However from what I can gather it appears this guitar can be a perfect players' guitar with just the expected work done to it.
Very nice
And, yeah, don't like echoing but man, that was an amazingly precise and in-depth review, maybe you should think of doing this for some on the side cash
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Oh man, and that right there was just what I was afraid more, GAS is knocking on my door, heck it's even knocking the windows as well, and I live on the 3rd floor!!!:9:
Yeah, I pretty much expected that a pro setup and fret dress/polish/whatever would be in order, I now take this for granted for every guitar I'm thinking of buying
However from what I can gather it appears this guitar can be a perfect players' guitar with just the expected work done to it.
Very nice
And, yeah, don't like echoing but man, that was an amazingly precise and in-depth review, maybe you should think of doing this for some on the side cash
XSSIVE
OCDologist
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
gOgIver....i figured that was an easy way to show how the neck shape/roll differs between my TMZ natural and custom (both very similar) and the pro-mod. the numbers on the blocks are the length of the block. yeah a typical floyd black is brass coated in nickel. these are NOT brass they are a cheaper metal like the mexican strats get. no idea what it actually is to be honest but you can tell by the pics it's very different from the real block. as for the neck angle...this like i said could be considered a subjective thing with no right or wrong answer. the angle of the pocket (no shims used) on the pro-mod is MUCH steeper than on the TMZ natural and my custom and any other non recessed floyded guitar i've ever owned for that matter. this causes the floyd to have to float off the body a bit to get playable action and not have the floyd sit at some crazy steep angle for the bottom plate to touch the body. the way to fix this isn't simple for average joe if he's upset with the steep angle and doesn't want float. you can go the easy route of a tremel-no i guess but the correct way IMO is to match the angle of the custom and TMZ by routing the neck pocket out to decrease the angle....no big deal when you have the right tools. again this is a subjective thing since some people will be happy with the steep angle giving them that little bit of pull up, others will just set the floyd on a crazy angle to have the back rest on the body...me...it's router time so it matches all my other guitars.
-Mike
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
gOgIver....i figured that was an easy way to show how the neck shape/roll differs between my TMZ natural and custom (both very similar) and the pro-mod. the numbers on the blocks are the length of the block. yeah a typical floyd black is brass coated in nickel. these are NOT brass they are a cheaper metal like the mexican strats get. no idea what it actually is to be honest but you can tell by the pics it's very different from the real block. as for the neck angle...this like i said could be considered a subjective thing with no right or wrong answer. the angle of the pocket (no shims used) on the pro-mod is MUCH steeper than on the TMZ natural and my custom and any other non recessed floyded guitar i've ever owned for that matter. this causes the floyd to have to float off the body a bit to get playable action and not have the floyd sit at some crazy steep angle for the bottom plate to touch the body. the way to fix this isn't simple for average joe if he's upset with the steep angle and doesn't want float. you can go the easy route of a tremel-no i guess but the correct way IMO is to match the angle of the custom and TMZ by routing the neck pocket out to decrease the angle....no big deal when you have the right tools. again this is a subjective thing since some people will be happy with the steep angle giving them that little bit of pull up, others will just set the floyd on a crazy angle to have the back rest on the body...me...it's router time so it matches all my other guitars.
-Mike
XSSIVE
OCDologist
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
keeper...don't stress the little stuff of my review, the knob, toggle and tuners are all subjective nit picks of my own...as i stated there would be at the top of the post. don't even worry about the finish crap i had to deal with or the ground wire...again odds are an isolated incident but i again wanted to be REAL honest about my personal findings. the only thing i've seen others say is the frets need at least some 0000 steel wool to get the oil film off them...no biggie. that and a set-up and you're in business rockin'!!! if you're picky about details a knob change may be in order and perhaps the toggle change if you're real picky like me lol. but like a good USA strat (those seem to be the best comparison for these guitars IMO) there is a good platform to build from or to just play out of the box.
-Mike
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
keeper...don't stress the little stuff of my review, the knob, toggle and tuners are all subjective nit picks of my own...as i stated there would be at the top of the post. don't even worry about the finish crap i had to deal with or the ground wire...again odds are an isolated incident but i again wanted to be REAL honest about my personal findings. the only thing i've seen others say is the frets need at least some 0000 steel wool to get the oil film off them...no biggie. that and a set-up and you're in business rockin'!!! if you're picky about details a knob change may be in order and perhaps the toggle change if you're real picky like me lol. but like a good USA strat (those seem to be the best comparison for these guitars IMO) there is a good platform to build from or to just play out of the box.
-Mike
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
first, How did you polish the trem unit?? Looks much better!
Second, I always prefer the pinto bean description for the grover keys.. Your description pretty much assures Ill never tune my guitars again... haha
or Ill have to pay a tech to do it..
So, this would be on par or better than a model series? Cool.. I have and love my 4s. Ive always heard that the raw feel of the charvel necks is amazing. And, I only have ONE maple board in my whole stable of 20. Thats my Japanese strat. So this would be a nice addition..
DAng, I need some $$$.
Im guessing a Custom 8 would make it magical..
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
first, How did you polish the trem unit?? Looks much better!
Second, I always prefer the pinto bean description for the grover keys.. Your description pretty much assures Ill never tune my guitars again... haha
or Ill have to pay a tech to do it..
So, this would be on par or better than a model series? Cool.. I have and love my 4s. Ive always heard that the raw feel of the charvel necks is amazing. And, I only have ONE maple board in my whole stable of 20. Thats my Japanese strat. So this would be a nice addition..
DAng, I need some $$$.
Im guessing a Custom 8 would make it magical..
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