Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
- Thread starter XSSIVE
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Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
I always thought warmoth and those necks were supposed to have good fretwork.
Mike,
Hey, I dont have a buffer. Ive had good luck in the past with liquid automotive rubbing compound/wax. That ok?
Does using 000 steel wool help frets much? My frets are ALL stock.. Never had a pro job done. most are pretty smooth. But the ones on my fav strat (Japanese squier) actually has some grooving that run the length.. Not playing grooves. Would this clean that up some?? Just mask the wood and rub the frets lightly??
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
I always thought warmoth and those necks were supposed to have good fretwork.
Mike,
Hey, I dont have a buffer. Ive had good luck in the past with liquid automotive rubbing compound/wax. That ok?
Does using 000 steel wool help frets much? My frets are ALL stock.. Never had a pro job done. most are pretty smooth. But the ones on my fav strat (Japanese squier) actually has some grooving that run the length.. Not playing grooves. Would this clean that up some?? Just mask the wood and rub the frets lightly??
XSSIVE
OCDologist
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
bloodrose...the trem i cleaned up with 3m swirl remover that you would typically use to get swirls out of paint (i guess the name gave that away lol) it's a very very mild compound abrasive enough to polish the grime and dullness off the trem but not scratch it at all, just leave a nice shine.
pinto bean tuner? nah man, that's a phallic symbol for sure...look at it this way, it has all the parts and looks like a cartoon version of man meat lol...
i think they're theodie's favorite tuner for that reason lol. i just couldn't help but be silly in my review in that area since i'm personally not a fan of 6 in line grovers. i'm cool with them on a les paul though in the larger size...go figure. they work fine they just look ugly to me.
i'd say they are in the ballpark of the model series since those too were great platforms to be real good guitars with some upgrades and set-ups or were good guitars out of the box if you're not picky. plus if you only have one maple board guitar you certainly need MORE MORE MORE. my stable is over run with maple board super strats and every one has it's own character and i love 'em all!!!
gOgIver...no problem. the neck angle, again subjective if you like float or not. but i am curious why it's steeper than all the custom charvels and TMZ naturals. i was at the music zoo picking this up and got to see ton of new customs and they all have the subtle pocket angle resting the floyd either flat or on a very very subtle angle yet still resting on the body...IMO the correct way for a non-recessed floyd. if you want pull up go all out recessed, not 1/2 way like this.
Gr8Scott...i'll review anything but if they make me pay for it or i can't keep it i'm being brutally honest. if they give it to me for free i'll still be brutally honest but just tell them i won't be hahahaha. i hate BS sugar coated reviews that don't go into all the little nit picking details. i like to know my gear inside and out!!
-Mike
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
bloodrose...the trem i cleaned up with 3m swirl remover that you would typically use to get swirls out of paint (i guess the name gave that away lol) it's a very very mild compound abrasive enough to polish the grime and dullness off the trem but not scratch it at all, just leave a nice shine.
pinto bean tuner? nah man, that's a phallic symbol for sure...look at it this way, it has all the parts and looks like a cartoon version of man meat lol...
i think they're theodie's favorite tuner for that reason lol. i just couldn't help but be silly in my review in that area since i'm personally not a fan of 6 in line grovers. i'm cool with them on a les paul though in the larger size...go figure. they work fine they just look ugly to me.
i'd say they are in the ballpark of the model series since those too were great platforms to be real good guitars with some upgrades and set-ups or were good guitars out of the box if you're not picky. plus if you only have one maple board guitar you certainly need MORE MORE MORE. my stable is over run with maple board super strats and every one has it's own character and i love 'em all!!!
gOgIver...no problem. the neck angle, again subjective if you like float or not. but i am curious why it's steeper than all the custom charvels and TMZ naturals. i was at the music zoo picking this up and got to see ton of new customs and they all have the subtle pocket angle resting the floyd either flat or on a very very subtle angle yet still resting on the body...IMO the correct way for a non-recessed floyd. if you want pull up go all out recessed, not 1/2 way like this.
Gr8Scott...i'll review anything but if they make me pay for it or i can't keep it i'm being brutally honest. if they give it to me for free i'll still be brutally honest but just tell them i won't be hahahaha. i hate BS sugar coated reviews that don't go into all the little nit picking details. i like to know my gear inside and out!!
-Mike
XSSIVE
OCDologist
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
just saw your second post...warmoth USACG musikraft and any of those parts companies come with the frets seated well and the bevels done but that's it. no level no end dressing no final polish. in some cases they can be playable but by all means it's not good fret work because it's not meant to be. warmoth even states that they don't come leveled and dressed and it may be needed. it is needed, at least a dress of the ends to make them nice and rounded/smooth for your hand to glide over not get caught up on and hurt you. since i've learned to do fret work i've gotten real real picky about it because i know it can be the key to making a good playing guitar a great playing guitar. thus why people love guitars like suhrs with the plek dress and custom shop guitars from big names where they take the extra time on the frets to make sure they are leveled and dressed well to maximize playability. like i mentioned, my finish swirls and the other black one i picked from could very well be an isolated incident, same with the haze on the trem. the only way to know is if other people are actually honest in their reviews and pics and don't sugar coat it to make themselves feel better about their purchase. you can certainly do it by hand this stuff works great and comes with everything you need to polish up a guitar... http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Instrument-Care-Kit-by-Meguiars?sku=420795 i have that and use it also. no need for a buffer, just use a bit more time and elbow grease. i'm lucky enough to have a buffer so it saves me time. the trem i did by hand, just some swirl remover on the applicator and wiped it off with a cloth, real easy and the haze was gone, works on any hardware of any color. steel wool is just used to get any oxidation or in this case oil film from the neck oil it seems off the frets and bring them to a smooth shine so the string slide over the frets better. 0000 steel wool won't take scratches out for that you need to actually have the guitar leveled and dressed and that's much more involved. but steel wooling the frets should be done at every (or every other depending on how often you play and how grimey they get) string change to clean off the gunk. just take tape or two post it notes on each side of the fret so the steel wool doesn't rub on the board and go across the fret with the steel wool, real simple. make sure to cover up the pickups so no steel wool bits get in there.
-Mike
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
just saw your second post...warmoth USACG musikraft and any of those parts companies come with the frets seated well and the bevels done but that's it. no level no end dressing no final polish. in some cases they can be playable but by all means it's not good fret work because it's not meant to be. warmoth even states that they don't come leveled and dressed and it may be needed. it is needed, at least a dress of the ends to make them nice and rounded/smooth for your hand to glide over not get caught up on and hurt you. since i've learned to do fret work i've gotten real real picky about it because i know it can be the key to making a good playing guitar a great playing guitar. thus why people love guitars like suhrs with the plek dress and custom shop guitars from big names where they take the extra time on the frets to make sure they are leveled and dressed well to maximize playability. like i mentioned, my finish swirls and the other black one i picked from could very well be an isolated incident, same with the haze on the trem. the only way to know is if other people are actually honest in their reviews and pics and don't sugar coat it to make themselves feel better about their purchase. you can certainly do it by hand this stuff works great and comes with everything you need to polish up a guitar... http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Instrument-Care-Kit-by-Meguiars?sku=420795 i have that and use it also. no need for a buffer, just use a bit more time and elbow grease. i'm lucky enough to have a buffer so it saves me time. the trem i did by hand, just some swirl remover on the applicator and wiped it off with a cloth, real easy and the haze was gone, works on any hardware of any color. steel wool is just used to get any oxidation or in this case oil film from the neck oil it seems off the frets and bring them to a smooth shine so the string slide over the frets better. 0000 steel wool won't take scratches out for that you need to actually have the guitar leveled and dressed and that's much more involved. but steel wooling the frets should be done at every (or every other depending on how often you play and how grimey they get) string change to clean off the gunk. just take tape or two post it notes on each side of the fret so the steel wool doesn't rub on the board and go across the fret with the steel wool, real simple. make sure to cover up the pickups so no steel wool bits get in there.
-Mike
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Kosh Naranek
New member
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
If indeed the QC is inconsistent and other Charvel production guitars such as those that MartinSixString got don't have a lot of the issues you were dissatisfied with, it shows the importance of quality control. Sell one sub-standard instrument to the wrong person and they'll wind up with a lengthy and detailed review of an "oops" guitar on well-read and respected guitar gear forum.
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Does anyone else find the fact that this trem has the Floyd Rose logo a little disturbing? Is anyone else concerned that owners may replace these with real Floyds and sell them on E Bay as "original Floyd Roses"?
If indeed the QC is inconsistent and other Charvel production guitars such as those that MartinSixString got don't have a lot of the issues you were dissatisfied with, it shows the importance of quality control. Sell one sub-standard instrument to the wrong person and they'll wind up with a lengthy and detailed review of an "oops" guitar on well-read and respected guitar gear forum.
XSSIVE
OCDologist
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
kosh...you can tell them from the real ones real easy. even the text that says "floyd rose" on the top of the trem is different. it's much larger on the cheap one. also there is no "made in germany" in the oval on the bottom. the block looks like a cheaper quality metal, the saddles are different shapes (they angle down in the back instead of being flat) and the saddle pins are black not silver like on the real ones. those are the basics but there are other differences too...even the studs.
thus why i took all the detailed pics.
i guess my guitar was a bit of a whoops based on the bad buff job and the ground wire. nothing horrible but not the best foot forward that's for sure since i wasn't about to BS my fellow guitar lovers about what i got. heck i hope other people get perfect guitars out of the box and don't need to buff out paint or fix grounds or polish frets. i'd like to see these step up in QC since i obviously seem to have gotten a slip up one.
so if anyone from FMIC is reading this...send me another one to review and put your best foot forward and i'll do another in depth review like this of a grade A specimen from the line....hey i can dream can't i LOL.
-Mike
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
kosh...you can tell them from the real ones real easy. even the text that says "floyd rose" on the top of the trem is different. it's much larger on the cheap one. also there is no "made in germany" in the oval on the bottom. the block looks like a cheaper quality metal, the saddles are different shapes (they angle down in the back instead of being flat) and the saddle pins are black not silver like on the real ones. those are the basics but there are other differences too...even the studs.
thus why i took all the detailed pics.
i guess my guitar was a bit of a whoops based on the bad buff job and the ground wire. nothing horrible but not the best foot forward that's for sure since i wasn't about to BS my fellow guitar lovers about what i got. heck i hope other people get perfect guitars out of the box and don't need to buff out paint or fix grounds or polish frets. i'd like to see these step up in QC since i obviously seem to have gotten a slip up one.
so if anyone from FMIC is reading this...send me another one to review and put your best foot forward and i'll do another in depth review like this of a grade A specimen from the line....hey i can dream can't i LOL.
-Mike
slightly_rude
New member
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
The numbers are the height of the block in millimeters. Jackson uses a 32mm on the Soloists (because the trem is recessed into the body and even a 37mm won't clear the back plate), Fender used a 42mm on the US Floyd Rose Strat.
Removing the block from the trem base plate, you can look at the threads to tell if the material is brass. Obviously, a brass block is not magnetic.
Mike - very nice review. I inquired to some online dealers for a So-Cal 1 in Candy Tangerine but they were already spoken for.
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
The numbers are the height of the block in millimeters. Jackson uses a 32mm on the Soloists (because the trem is recessed into the body and even a 37mm won't clear the back plate), Fender used a 42mm on the US Floyd Rose Strat.
Removing the block from the trem base plate, you can look at the threads to tell if the material is brass. Obviously, a brass block is not magnetic.
Mike - very nice review. I inquired to some online dealers for a So-Cal 1 in Candy Tangerine but they were already spoken for.
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KeeperOS
New member
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Well, I don't really consider this an oops review, just a very detailed, in-depth nit-picking review. My favorite kind in fact.
Obviously everyone likes to hear the best in anything but personally I like (and am not intimidated by) hearing the down side as well.
That way I can make a much more informed decision about whether I like something.
In this case Mike pointed out mostly things that I'd actually expect from ANY production guitar, budget or not, so no surprises there.
After all was said and done what I read was that he actually gave them his seal of approval, saying that no matter how picky you are, for the price these guitars will satisfy you, but only in the context of, the more picky you are, the more you'll be prepared to put some "finishing touches"
About the Floyd now, yeah, I'd be extremely interested to hear exactly what kind of a Floyd it is and how it came to be named as original Floyd Rose...
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Well, I don't really consider this an oops review, just a very detailed, in-depth nit-picking review. My favorite kind in fact.
Obviously everyone likes to hear the best in anything but personally I like (and am not intimidated by) hearing the down side as well.
That way I can make a much more informed decision about whether I like something.
In this case Mike pointed out mostly things that I'd actually expect from ANY production guitar, budget or not, so no surprises there.
After all was said and done what I read was that he actually gave them his seal of approval, saying that no matter how picky you are, for the price these guitars will satisfy you, but only in the context of, the more picky you are, the more you'll be prepared to put some "finishing touches"
About the Floyd now, yeah, I'd be extremely interested to hear exactly what kind of a Floyd it is and how it came to be named as original Floyd Rose...
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Pierre
Stratologist
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
It IS an OFR since Floyd Rose the company authorized whoever builds them to label them as OFRs.
Just like they did with Schaller and are doing with Ping.
Otherwise you can say a Schaller 'OFR' isn't an OFR either...
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
It IS an OFR since Floyd Rose the company authorized whoever builds them to label them as OFRs.
Just like they did with Schaller and are doing with Ping.
Otherwise you can say a Schaller 'OFR' isn't an OFR either...
SAVAGE DISTORTION
New member
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
for anyone that cares the grover mini roto's on these new charvels have a 18:1 ratio
which i prefer.
the floyd rose is the same KOREAN made floyd used on these RR24's
it is a very good trem even if it is not MIG:haha:
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
for anyone that cares the grover mini roto's on these new charvels have a 18:1 ratio
which i prefer.
the floyd rose is the same KOREAN made floyd used on these RR24's
it is a very good trem even if it is not MIG:haha:
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XSSIVE
OCDologist
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
i should be clear...when i say "OFR" i mean the real deal german made floyd and nothing else. not the schaller labeled one either. sorry should have been clear on that. i call a schaller floyd a schaller floyd a ping a ping a gotoh a gotoh and this a...well...ummm, i don't know...korean floyd i guess?? or is it chinese?? it sure as heck isn't real deal german. again, it works fine though so i'm just stating the fact that it isn't a real deal 100% german made floyd as used on all the other charvels. just the facts mam, just the facts lol.
-Mike
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
i should be clear...when i say "OFR" i mean the real deal german made floyd and nothing else. not the schaller labeled one either. sorry should have been clear on that. i call a schaller floyd a schaller floyd a ping a ping a gotoh a gotoh and this a...well...ummm, i don't know...korean floyd i guess?? or is it chinese?? it sure as heck isn't real deal german. again, it works fine though so i'm just stating the fact that it isn't a real deal 100% german made floyd as used on all the other charvels. just the facts mam, just the facts lol.
-Mike
SAVAGE DISTORTION
New member
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
lookie above your post:haha::bigthumb:
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
lookie above your post:haha::bigthumb:
KeeperOS
New member
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Actually I had that question, right now Schaller manufactures the OFR, but were they the ones to build it from day one?
If not is there a design/quality difference between the pre and post Schaller (bar the latest ones which IMO aren't all that good) ones?
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Actually I had that question, right now Schaller manufactures the OFR, but were they the ones to build it from day one?
If not is there a design/quality difference between the pre and post Schaller (bar the latest ones which IMO aren't all that good) ones?
slightly_rude
New member
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Schaller makes two different OFR "style" bridges. Floyd Rose contracts Schaller to make their all steel OFR. Brass block, hardened knife edges, Floyd Rose logo, made in Germany shown on the back. This is the one used on USA Jacksons. My experience with this bridge has been excellent with zero problems.
http://warmoth.com/hardware/bridges/pdf/Original_Floyd_Rose_Diagram.pdf
Then there is the Schaller licensed OFR that has die cast parts and has the "Licensed Under Floyd Rose Patents" on the base plate. I have no experience with this one.
http://warmoth.com/hardware/bridges/pdf/Schaller_Floyd_Rose_Diagram.pdf
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Schaller makes two different OFR "style" bridges. Floyd Rose contracts Schaller to make their all steel OFR. Brass block, hardened knife edges, Floyd Rose logo, made in Germany shown on the back. This is the one used on USA Jacksons. My experience with this bridge has been excellent with zero problems.
http://warmoth.com/hardware/bridges/pdf/Original_Floyd_Rose_Diagram.pdf
Then there is the Schaller licensed OFR that has die cast parts and has the "Licensed Under Floyd Rose Patents" on the base plate. I have no experience with this one.
http://warmoth.com/hardware/bridges/pdf/Schaller_Floyd_Rose_Diagram.pdf
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Fiesta Red
Member
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Mike,
Great review. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
How would you compare these to parts guitars (your Clone series) you have made in the past, like your Musikraft parts guitar, in terms of quality?
Any idea on where to pick one of these up? Matt was all sold out, then he dropped his Charvel line.
-Mark
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Mike,
Great review. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
How would you compare these to parts guitars (your Clone series) you have made in the past, like your Musikraft parts guitar, in terms of quality?
Any idea on where to pick one of these up? Matt was all sold out, then he dropped his Charvel line.
-Mark
XSSIVE
OCDologist
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Mark,
i don't really want to compare them to my Clones since everyone would just think i'm favoring my own guitars. for the answer to that i'll direct you to a happy customer...check what MountainDog had to say here...
http://www.jcfonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83727
in his words from that post...
"I own a Charvel TMZ natural Mahogany, a Custom shop Dweezil green, CloneGuitars #004, and a GMW strathead. By owning one of Mike's Clone guitars, I can attest to the workmanship and quality of it, which is on a par with the Charvel custom shop & GMW ones Mike refers to."
he owns Clone #004 and not to toot my own horn as my dad likes to say lol but i do believe my work due to my attention to detail and obsessive nature for perfection on frets and neck finish and neck shape/fingerboard roll and overall set-up easily puts my Clones up there with my custom shop and GMW and Wayne i used to own and above the pro-mod charvels for sure. honestly i wouldn't bother doing it if i couldn't do it well. that may sound slightly egotistical in a way but it's the truth, if i suck at something i don't bother doing it. the attention to detail is there in my work since i'm one guy that takes the guitar from a-z aside from paint...i leave that to a pro lol. so i know the final/fine neck shaping and rolling and oil finishing, the fret work, the assembly, the wiring and the set-up and i spend time on each part and don't just blow through it trying to get to the next guitar.
also you can note PFDarkside's simple comment in this thread...he owns two Clones #002 and #003.
Another member who has had great things to say in the past 51501984 owns two custom Clones.
repeat customers is the reason for bringing that up. two guys that liked them so much they bought a second and that was a great compliment in itself!!
as for where to buy, i can't speak highly enough about www.themusiczoo.com great shop to deal with! Tim over there has done great by me and is just a real nice guy to deal with. they are sold out of the first shipment i think but should be getting more. otherwise i guess a dealer off ebay with good feedback and good pics may be a good choice if you don't want to wait...but i'd check with the zoo about the next shipment.
-Mike
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Mark,
i don't really want to compare them to my Clones since everyone would just think i'm favoring my own guitars. for the answer to that i'll direct you to a happy customer...check what MountainDog had to say here...
http://www.jcfonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83727
in his words from that post...
"I own a Charvel TMZ natural Mahogany, a Custom shop Dweezil green, CloneGuitars #004, and a GMW strathead. By owning one of Mike's Clone guitars, I can attest to the workmanship and quality of it, which is on a par with the Charvel custom shop & GMW ones Mike refers to."
he owns Clone #004 and not to toot my own horn as my dad likes to say lol but i do believe my work due to my attention to detail and obsessive nature for perfection on frets and neck finish and neck shape/fingerboard roll and overall set-up easily puts my Clones up there with my custom shop and GMW and Wayne i used to own and above the pro-mod charvels for sure. honestly i wouldn't bother doing it if i couldn't do it well. that may sound slightly egotistical in a way but it's the truth, if i suck at something i don't bother doing it. the attention to detail is there in my work since i'm one guy that takes the guitar from a-z aside from paint...i leave that to a pro lol. so i know the final/fine neck shaping and rolling and oil finishing, the fret work, the assembly, the wiring and the set-up and i spend time on each part and don't just blow through it trying to get to the next guitar.
also you can note PFDarkside's simple comment in this thread...he owns two Clones #002 and #003.
Another member who has had great things to say in the past 51501984 owns two custom Clones.
repeat customers is the reason for bringing that up. two guys that liked them so much they bought a second and that was a great compliment in itself!!
as for where to buy, i can't speak highly enough about www.themusiczoo.com great shop to deal with! Tim over there has done great by me and is just a real nice guy to deal with. they are sold out of the first shipment i think but should be getting more. otherwise i guess a dealer off ebay with good feedback and good pics may be a good choice if you don't want to wait...but i'd check with the zoo about the next shipment.
-Mike
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vinterland
New member
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
A huge +1 after I saw one on a rack recently. I think this is the most important point. The same opinions were thrown around in a recent thread about import soloists vs. true soloists.
Re: Charvel Production Model..IN DEPTH…
A huge +1 after I saw one on a rack recently. I think this is the most important point. The same opinions were thrown around in a recent thread about import soloists vs. true soloists.
