Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
- Thread starter Mr.Geoffroy
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Jeff_H
Dean Hardtail Fanologist
Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
I understand completely needing to buy something you can afford. Counterfit issues aside, the advice here is pretty solid. There are many LP type guitars that you can get in the pricerange you are looking at, mainly from eBay if you can't buy or order one locally. You take a much smaller risk buying from eBay than from china IMO.
It would stink to have to wait a bit longer or save more money, but it would suck more to spend your hard earned money and end up with a pile of sawdust and glue that won't tune up.
I understand completely needing to buy something you can afford. Counterfit issues aside, the advice here is pretty solid. There are many LP type guitars that you can get in the pricerange you are looking at, mainly from eBay if you can't buy or order one locally. You take a much smaller risk buying from eBay than from china IMO.
It would stink to have to wait a bit longer or save more money, but it would suck more to spend your hard earned money and end up with a pile of sawdust and glue that won't tune up.
Mr.Geoffroy
New member
Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
yes man i know , but i was searching and a lot of guys that bought chinese gibsons are completely satisfied with their guitars , and they tell that the most fakes are made of real mahogany ( or basswood) an with real maple tops , but with a crap hardware.
and for me that lives in brazil , its much more cheap buy the guitar in china, because the taxes and the price are lower.
but i have to think more about it.
yes man i know , but i was searching and a lot of guys that bought chinese gibsons are completely satisfied with their guitars , and they tell that the most fakes are made of real mahogany ( or basswood) an with real maple tops , but with a crap hardware.
and for me that lives in brazil , its much more cheap buy the guitar in china, because the taxes and the price are lower.
but i have to think more about it.
Jeff_H
Dean Hardtail Fanologist
Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
Well, if you know some guys who have bought the same thing and they are decent then maybe you are ok taking the chance. It all comes down to what you can afford to buy that meets your criteria. Sometimes it's hard for us in the states to realize that not everyone has the same choices we do, especially when it comes to import taxes, duties, etc. Our brothers in the UK can attest to the high cost of import duties compared to here.
Best of luck with what you decide.
Well, if you know some guys who have bought the same thing and they are decent then maybe you are ok taking the chance. It all comes down to what you can afford to buy that meets your criteria. Sometimes it's hard for us in the states to realize that not everyone has the same choices we do, especially when it comes to import taxes, duties, etc. Our brothers in the UK can attest to the high cost of import duties compared to here.
Best of luck with what you decide.
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVdSejOeMkQ
(Video wouldn't load even with YT UBB tag)
Japanese companies don't respect trademark either, hence the Edwards and other copies. Granted they don't distribute directly to the U.S., but they also don't penalize dealers who do ship here. At least U.S. companies have a system in place where dealers are penalized for shipping certain items overseas and have some respect for international markets.
The Orville brand is Gibson's Asian-market brand, built in Japan. They're of sufficient quality as to compete with Gibson USA, which is why Gibson does not want these imported to the USA.
Then along comes Edwards and Burny and whoever else who make one equal to a Gibson USA in both quality and shape (including headstock) and ship it straight to America through their dealer network. Twice the guitar at half the price. Real abalone and MOP, real mahogany (not agathis or basswood or cedro), real rosewood, real maple (not Sen), and in most cases USA-made pickups, Schaller hardware, etc etc.
And you want to complain about the Chinese putting the Gibson logo on it?
And you'll have to tell me why scarf joints are a problem. Spanish luthiers have used it for centuries, and is why it's called a "Spanish Luthier's Joint", and it has never been a problem. One long piece of wood for the neck is A) rare to find and B) nearly impossible to keep straight even with a trussrod.
Even Jackson neckthroughs use a 3-piece neck tenon - scarf jointed head-to-neck, and scarf-jointed neck-to-body tenon. Never heard of one falling apart, and I've seen one survive a fire, whereas the USA Les Paul Custom did not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVdSejOeMkQ
(Video wouldn't load even with YT UBB tag)
Japanese companies don't respect trademark either, hence the Edwards and other copies. Granted they don't distribute directly to the U.S., but they also don't penalize dealers who do ship here. At least U.S. companies have a system in place where dealers are penalized for shipping certain items overseas and have some respect for international markets.
The Orville brand is Gibson's Asian-market brand, built in Japan. They're of sufficient quality as to compete with Gibson USA, which is why Gibson does not want these imported to the USA.
Then along comes Edwards and Burny and whoever else who make one equal to a Gibson USA in both quality and shape (including headstock) and ship it straight to America through their dealer network. Twice the guitar at half the price. Real abalone and MOP, real mahogany (not agathis or basswood or cedro), real rosewood, real maple (not Sen), and in most cases USA-made pickups, Schaller hardware, etc etc.
And you want to complain about the Chinese putting the Gibson logo on it?
And you'll have to tell me why scarf joints are a problem. Spanish luthiers have used it for centuries, and is why it's called a "Spanish Luthier's Joint", and it has never been a problem. One long piece of wood for the neck is A) rare to find and B) nearly impossible to keep straight even with a trussrod.
Even Jackson neckthroughs use a 3-piece neck tenon - scarf jointed head-to-neck, and scarf-jointed neck-to-body tenon. Never heard of one falling apart, and I've seen one survive a fire, whereas the USA Les Paul Custom did not.
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Travis H
New member
Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
Ok I'm just going to say it... if your dumb enough to not take what "got tone?" has said, your really not thinking very well.
But moving on. you get what you pay for, crappy wood, crappy hardware, crappy paint, it would cost you about the same to buy a higher priced guitar, as it would take to make it a good guitar.
If you can save your money I would go to Warmoth.com and have them build what you need, not only would it be top of the line BUT it would have a chance of bringing you some money back if you sell it.
If you could find a guitar on ebay with p90s you could always use this http://store.guitarfetish.com/Mini-Humbucker-P90-Soapbar-Adapter-Ring-Kit-CREAM_p_1487.html
Now i hope this helps and I don't mean to be a dick but I really would hate for you to wast your money.
Ok I'm just going to say it... if your dumb enough to not take what "got tone?" has said, your really not thinking very well.
But moving on. you get what you pay for, crappy wood, crappy hardware, crappy paint, it would cost you about the same to buy a higher priced guitar, as it would take to make it a good guitar.
If you can save your money I would go to Warmoth.com and have them build what you need, not only would it be top of the line BUT it would have a chance of bringing you some money back if you sell it.
If you could find a guitar on ebay with p90s you could always use this http://store.guitarfetish.com/Mini-Humbucker-P90-Soapbar-Adapter-Ring-Kit-CREAM_p_1487.html
Now i hope this helps and I don't mean to be a dick but I really would hate for you to wast your money.
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Got_tone?
New member
Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
Yeah, I could see how that might have came out the wrong way, my bad. He's buying a "69 deluxe" replica, shouldn't it at least be built like one?
Yeah, I could see how that might have came out the wrong way, my bad. He's buying a "69 deluxe" replica, shouldn't it at least be built like one?
JOLLY
Super Simonologist
Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
Why did you even ask for advice? You're going to buy one anyways because you say you can't afford any other one.
Everyone has told you that they don't condone the buying of the counterfeit Gibsons and that they're pieces of crap. I feel the exact same way about them.
Why did you even ask for advice? You're going to buy one anyways because you say you can't afford any other one.
sbecker67
New member
Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
Just go to www.rondomusic.com or even get an Xaviere from Guitarfetish. The quality is know to be good, the service is excellent, they stand behind the product and aren't trying to pass off a bad instrument as something it isn't. That company you linked is known for selling bad instruments and they are marketed as real Gibson's; that's what everyone is objecting too not that it's made in China.
Oh, and they're in your price range.
Just go to www.rondomusic.com or even get an Xaviere from Guitarfetish. The quality is know to be good, the service is excellent, they stand behind the product and aren't trying to pass off a bad instrument as something it isn't. That company you linked is known for selling bad instruments and they are marketed as real Gibson's; that's what everyone is objecting too not that it's made in China.
Oh, and they're in your price range.
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
This is another one where I'd like to try it myself for comparative purposes, since there's already so much bias against them based on hearsay and "oh, they're made in China".
I've had an Agile 2500 Goldtop and a USA Les Paul Standard at the same time. The Agile had the same neck, same body weight and thickness, and same playability. However, the Agile had "something" about it that I couldn't quite put my finger on, almost like an odd vibration coming from the neck. Loose/sloppy trussrod cavity? I dunno, but it had everything else the LPS did - even the same cumbersome upper-fret access :lol:
Anyway, I sold them both to buy more Jacksons, so there :lol:
This is another one where I'd like to try it myself for comparative purposes, since there's already so much bias against them based on hearsay and "oh, they're made in China".
I've had an Agile 2500 Goldtop and a USA Les Paul Standard at the same time. The Agile had the same neck, same body weight and thickness, and same playability. However, the Agile had "something" about it that I couldn't quite put my finger on, almost like an odd vibration coming from the neck. Loose/sloppy trussrod cavity? I dunno, but it had everything else the LPS did - even the same cumbersome upper-fret access :lol:
Anyway, I sold them both to buy more Jacksons, so there :lol:
Mr.Geoffroy
New member
Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
hey guys i asked him ( the seller) to send me more photos of the guitar , incluiding the headstock and the pickups without the mount ring beside them.
hey guys i asked him ( the seller) to send me more photos of the guitar , incluiding the headstock and the pickups without the mount ring beside them.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
I would LOVE to have a Chinese fake Ace guitar - just to have it. One was on the bay for a New York minute a few weeks ago and got pulled.
But I have to agree here - if you can't get it in your hands and play it - I say just say NO. You could find a totally playable Epi or similar guitar and do it up to ~98% EXCEPT the headstock. If it's just for fun - why not?
But if you MUST go Gibson then: Get a Gibson - you'll be as happy as humanly possible. Or, at least get a known playable guitar and have the headstock doctored.
I would LOVE to have a Chinese fake Ace guitar - just to have it. One was on the bay for a New York minute a few weeks ago and got pulled.
But I have to agree here - if you can't get it in your hands and play it - I say just say NO. You could find a totally playable Epi or similar guitar and do it up to ~98% EXCEPT the headstock. If it's just for fun - why not?
But if you MUST go Gibson then: Get a Gibson - you'll be as happy as humanly possible. Or, at least get a known playable guitar and have the headstock doctored.
David Collins
New member
Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
Though both are illegal (or at least not legally sold within the United States), I see at least some distinction between subverting copyright laws by making copies such as Burny and Edwards do with their own logos, and outright counterfeiting with intent to deceive as TradeTang does.
I don't condone either, but the later case I would at least argue to be more deplorable than the former. When Burny and Edward guitars make it in to stores, no one who buys one thinks they are buying a Gibson. TradeTang guitars however make up a good part of counterfeits often sold and resold as Gibsons. Even if you know it is not a Gibson when you are buying it, you're still supporting the company that facilitates the scamming of many unsuspecting buyers.
Plus, they often turn out to be crap. Pieces of crap with strings. Musical Instrument Shaped Products. Even if you plan on modifying it, you would probably prefer to get something made with seasoned wood and a straight neck that stands a chance of remaining fairly stable. With counterfeits such as this, you get no such guarantees, and if you end up with something that turns out to be an unserviceable chunk of wood and steel, then you get exactly what you deserve.
Being the Seymour Duncan forum, why don't you just ask whether you should buy some counterfeit Duncan Pickups from China to save a few bucks.
Same damn thing. Don't support counterfeiters.
Though both are illegal (or at least not legally sold within the United States), I see at least some distinction between subverting copyright laws by making copies such as Burny and Edwards do with their own logos, and outright counterfeiting with intent to deceive as TradeTang does.
I don't condone either, but the later case I would at least argue to be more deplorable than the former. When Burny and Edward guitars make it in to stores, no one who buys one thinks they are buying a Gibson. TradeTang guitars however make up a good part of counterfeits often sold and resold as Gibsons. Even if you know it is not a Gibson when you are buying it, you're still supporting the company that facilitates the scamming of many unsuspecting buyers.
Plus, they often turn out to be crap. Pieces of crap with strings. Musical Instrument Shaped Products. Even if you plan on modifying it, you would probably prefer to get something made with seasoned wood and a straight neck that stands a chance of remaining fairly stable. With counterfeits such as this, you get no such guarantees, and if you end up with something that turns out to be an unserviceable chunk of wood and steel, then you get exactly what you deserve.
Being the Seymour Duncan forum, why don't you just ask whether you should buy some counterfeit Duncan Pickups from China to save a few bucks.
Same damn thing. Don't support counterfeiters.
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David Collins
New member
Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
Here you go.
http://www.tradetang.com/for-sale/-Seymour-Duncan-pickups-Electric-Guitar-/127043-1964950.html
How can anyone in good conscience come to the Seymour Duncan Forum, and expect to find support in buying guitars from a company that advertises counterfeit Seymour Duncan Pickups in their counterfeit guitars?
Here you go.
http://www.tradetang.com/for-sale/-Seymour-Duncan-pickups-Electric-Guitar-/127043-1964950.html
How can anyone in good conscience come to the Seymour Duncan Forum, and expect to find support in buying guitars from a company that advertises counterfeit Seymour Duncan Pickups in their counterfeit guitars?
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Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
as far as the plastic rings around this Knock off it was on some original Gibsons as well... they were called Goof rings and Gibson had them on some early Deluxes to hide some awful routing they did... so teh knock off is copying the Gibsons mistake too
as far as the plastic rings around this Knock off it was on some original Gibsons as well... they were called Goof rings and Gibson had them on some early Deluxes to hide some awful routing they did... so teh knock off is copying the Gibsons mistake too
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
That's a link for a Rhoads fake called Seymour Duncan pickups guitar. I'm not seeing where they're using fake Duncans.
As with anything - houses, cars, food - it's Buyer Beware, Seller Take Care. If you don't know how to spot a Chinese fake Les Paul, learn (hint: the Chinese stamp the serial after it's painted, so you see wood. Gibson stamps them then paints them, so the numbers are filled with paint).
That's a link for a Rhoads fake called Seymour Duncan pickups guitar. I'm not seeing where they're using fake Duncans.
As with anything - houses, cars, food - it's Buyer Beware, Seller Take Care. If you don't know how to spot a Chinese fake Les Paul, learn (hint: the Chinese stamp the serial after it's painted, so you see wood. Gibson stamps them then paints them, so the numbers are filled with paint).
David Collins
New member
Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
The pickups in that guitar, advertised as Duncans, with Seymour Duncan printed on them - you really don't think that they bought those from Seymour, or that he is seeing a dime in any licensing contract through them, do you? This company deals in counterfeits of everything, from hand bags to iPhones to guitars. I highly doubt they decided to make an exception for Seymour.
The pickups in that guitar, advertised as Duncans, with Seymour Duncan printed on them - you really don't think that they bought those from Seymour, or that he is seeing a dime in any licensing contract through them, do you? This company deals in counterfeits of everything, from hand bags to iPhones to guitars. I highly doubt they decided to make an exception for Seymour.
David Collins
New member
Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
Plain and simple, the company the OP is asking if he should support, is also a company that sells guitars with counterfeit Seymour Duncan pickups.
Not trying to insult anyone or accuse them of being moral-less, just putting things in perspective. Maybe it's all too easy for some to brush aside concerns for Gibson's rights and interests - fine (well not really fine, but...). To recognize that this same company could be violating the rights and interests of the owners of the forum on which we meet, and to still discuss doing business with them, is simply spitting on the floor of the hosts who've had you over for dinner.
Plain and simple, the company the OP is asking if he should support, is also a company that sells guitars with counterfeit Seymour Duncan pickups.
Not trying to insult anyone or accuse them of being moral-less, just putting things in perspective. Maybe it's all too easy for some to brush aside concerns for Gibson's rights and interests - fine (well not really fine, but...). To recognize that this same company could be violating the rights and interests of the owners of the forum on which we meet, and to still discuss doing business with them, is simply spitting on the floor of the hosts who've had you over for dinner.
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: Chinese Gibson (69 Deluxe Gold top)
Dont do it. Dont buy the copy. NOthing is free in this world man. Dont cause yourself grief buying a poorly made instrument just because it says gibson on the headstock. You will still know its a crappy guitar when you play it, when you try to tune it and when look at it. Who are you trying to fool?
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/...tion-1956-Les-Paul-Electric-Guitar?sku=518320
This one has p90s in it but if you want the mini humbuckers it will be an easy change.
If you want a playable good sounding instrument at least get something like this. Epiphone is owned by gibson. So if you are after a gibson but cant afford it then epihones are the obvious choice. Epis are really excellent guitars in the bang for buck category. The frets will be in the right place. The neck will be straight. The truss rod will work. The finish will look good. They are made of wood (not glue). They have a warranty. The tuners will not need replacing. The bridge saddles will work. Basically....it will not need to to go to a luthier to fix a bunch of stuf that you are planning on doing with the other thing. So you will actually save money and have a better axe. also if you ever decide to sell it at least you will get some of your money back.
Did i remember to say DONT BUY THE COPY?
cos if i didnt then i better do you a favour and say it.... DONT BUY THE COPY!
Dont do it. Dont buy the copy. NOthing is free in this world man. Dont cause yourself grief buying a poorly made instrument just because it says gibson on the headstock. You will still know its a crappy guitar when you play it, when you try to tune it and when look at it. Who are you trying to fool?
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/...tion-1956-Les-Paul-Electric-Guitar?sku=518320
This one has p90s in it but if you want the mini humbuckers it will be an easy change.
If you want a playable good sounding instrument at least get something like this. Epiphone is owned by gibson. So if you are after a gibson but cant afford it then epihones are the obvious choice. Epis are really excellent guitars in the bang for buck category. The frets will be in the right place. The neck will be straight. The truss rod will work. The finish will look good. They are made of wood (not glue). They have a warranty. The tuners will not need replacing. The bridge saddles will work. Basically....it will not need to to go to a luthier to fix a bunch of stuf that you are planning on doing with the other thing. So you will actually save money and have a better axe. also if you ever decide to sell it at least you will get some of your money back.
Did i remember to say DONT BUY THE COPY?
cos if i didnt then i better do you a favour and say it.... DONT BUY THE COPY!
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