Closest SD HB to an SD
- Thread starter Francois
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PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: Closest SD HB to an SD
It has, and the answer is always “just get a Super Distortion”.
It has, and the answer is always “just get a Super Distortion”.
Mr. B
New member
Re: Closest SD HB to an SD
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?317427-Duncan-PU-closest-to-Super-Distortion
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?317427-Duncan-PU-closest-to-Super-Distortion
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
Re: Closest SD HB to an SD
I wonder what a Full Shred with a ceramic oversized magnet would sound like.
I wonder what a Full Shred with a ceramic oversized magnet would sound like.
Closest SD HB to an SD
Unless you’ve got a source for cheap Duncans I’d usually just say buy the Dimarzio. The only thing I dislike about them is the insane trademark on double creme humbuckers. That’s a good enough reason for me to avoid them but I like to vote with my wallet.
Duncan has alternatives I like better than the SD but they don’t sound exactly the same.
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Unless you’ve got a source for cheap Duncans I’d usually just say buy the Dimarzio. The only thing I dislike about them is the insane trademark on double creme humbuckers. That’s a good enough reason for me to avoid them but I like to vote with my wallet.
Duncan has alternatives I like better than the SD but they don’t sound exactly the same.
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Francois
New member
Re: Closest SD HB to an SD
I already have some SD (the stock pups in my first good guitar, an Aria purchased in the 80s).
I was just wondering if any regular Seymour Duncan would compare to it.
Actually Duncan were right not to imitate it and do their own.
If someone doesn't like the cream SD, now they sell it also in pink, violet, green/black zebra and many more options...
I already have some SD (the stock pups in my first good guitar, an Aria purchased in the 80s).
I was just wondering if any regular Seymour Duncan would compare to it.
Actually Duncan were right not to imitate it and do their own.
If someone doesn't like the cream SD, now they sell it also in pink, violet, green/black zebra and many more options...
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Dave Locher
New member
Re: Closest SD HB to an SD
It is the opposite problem: Dimarzio is the only company that can make & sell double-cream regular humbuckers in the U.S. Some resent this so much they supposedly refuse to buy Dimarzio pickups because of it.
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Closest SD HB to an SD
A SD includes thick (tubular) allen screw poles, a double thick magnet and has the inductance of a P90 (almost 7H for a DCR of 13k). The pickup with the closest "architecture" among Duncan PU's is probably the Invader mentioned by Aceman... but the Invader has higher resistance / inductance (15.67k & 8.34H according to my archived measurements) and its mushroom poles spread the magnetic field differently.
Regarding the reasons why some people are reluctant to buy DM, there's much more to state than the simple double cream controversy.But I'll avoid to pollute your topic with such things, cher compatriote (and it's true that those who earn their life by building pickups for DiMarzio have not to be punished for some discussible commercial decisions characterizing their employeer: on this basis, so be it if customers buy DiMarzio's).
Footnote: I've still a bridge DM SD in a superstrat myself, simply because nothing replaces it.
A SD includes thick (tubular) allen screw poles, a double thick magnet and has the inductance of a P90 (almost 7H for a DCR of 13k). The pickup with the closest "architecture" among Duncan PU's is probably the Invader mentioned by Aceman... but the Invader has higher resistance / inductance (15.67k & 8.34H according to my archived measurements) and its mushroom poles spread the magnetic field differently.
Regarding the reasons why some people are reluctant to buy DM, there's much more to state than the simple double cream controversy.But I'll avoid to pollute your topic with such things, cher compatriote (and it's true that those who earn their life by building pickups for DiMarzio have not to be punished for some discussible commercial decisions characterizing their employeer: on this basis, so be it if customers buy DiMarzio's).
Footnote: I've still a bridge DM SD in a superstrat myself, simply because nothing replaces it.
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Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Closest SD HB to an SD
The duncan designed detonator and replace the cap screws with hex screws. Its in the same ball park but would say its a bit tighter and brighter.
The duncan designed detonator and replace the cap screws with hex screws. Its in the same ball park but would say its a bit tighter and brighter.
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Closest SD HB to an SD
You know ive made that pickup before, but i cant remember really what it sounded like. I remember this much, i didnt like it was just underwhelmed, it didnt add anything good to the sound of the stock FS in my opinion.
You know ive made that pickup before, but i cant remember really what it sounded like. I remember this much, i didnt like it was just underwhelmed, it didnt add anything good to the sound of the stock FS in my opinion.
OsvyRock
New member
Re: Closest SD HB to an SD
I read that the Duncan Custom (SH-5) is somehow similar. I'm a fan and user of both pickups (the Super Distortion and the Duncan Custom). Both are my favorite bridge pickups, but are they the same? Not at all! If you want a Super Distortion, BUY IT! There are no substitutes!
I read that the Duncan Custom (SH-5) is somehow similar. I'm a fan and user of both pickups (the Super Distortion and the Duncan Custom). Both are my favorite bridge pickups, but are they the same? Not at all! If you want a Super Distortion, BUY IT! There are no substitutes!
Francois
New member
Re: Closest SD HB to an SD
Thanks for the explanation ! Merci !
So Dimarzio has a patent over a colour ? Sounds weird to me.
And is there any difference between vintage SD (I mean late 70's or early 80s) and their current production ?
I did everything with SD with my first bands long ago and still have them in that RS-X80 (maple neck-through with ash wings).
When you slip the HB it sounds almost like a steel acoustic guitar, (!) but most of times it used to be an angry hardcore guitar.
I had another SD with rusty poles I gave to a friend long ago.
Thanks for the explanation ! Merci !
So Dimarzio has a patent over a colour ? Sounds weird to me.
And is there any difference between vintage SD (I mean late 70's or early 80s) and their current production ?
I did everything with SD with my first bands long ago and still have them in that RS-X80 (maple neck-through with ash wings).
When you slip the HB it sounds almost like a steel acoustic guitar, (!) but most of times it used to be an angry hardcore guitar.
I had another SD with rusty poles I gave to a friend long ago.
PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: Closest SD HB to an SD
It’s a Trademark, not a Patent. They argue that they made the “double cream” look (or at least made it well-known) when they introduced aftermarket pickups, and that when you see double cream you think Dimarzio. This would be similar to a different cola company using a specific red with white script font for a name. Coca Cola would argue you are using their Trademark to sell your cola and are deceiving customers. You can see how many don’t think the Dimarzio example follows this, but they have the Trademark and have to defend it to keep it.
There are definitely a few guys here that can give you the history on both Duncan JBs/APHs and Dimarzio SDs.
It’s a Trademark, not a Patent. They argue that they made the “double cream” look (or at least made it well-known) when they introduced aftermarket pickups, and that when you see double cream you think Dimarzio. This would be similar to a different cola company using a specific red with white script font for a name. Coca Cola would argue you are using their Trademark to sell your cola and are deceiving customers. You can see how many don’t think the Dimarzio example follows this, but they have the Trademark and have to defend it to keep it.
There are definitely a few guys here that can give you the history on both Duncan JBs/APHs and Dimarzio SDs.
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Closest SD HB to an SD
+1 about what PFDarkside said.
DM has actually several jealously protected trademarks AND patents but again, I won't dig this question here.
Regarding the difference between vintage and current SD's: I don't know... My oldest SD has been resold in 1982 (it was in... an Aria Pro II! LOL). The other DM's that I've bought since this day are much more recent: I've selected them for their low price in rebate sales without wanting to spend the money asked on "leboncoin" for old ones. I've already my share of vintage PU's, anyway (including à small collection of "prehistoric" Duncan's).
My "recent" SD gives me what I want - an early Dave Murray tone when it's required. Nothing special out of this observation. And yes, SD's split nicely.
Salut et à +,
FF
+1 about what PFDarkside said.
DM has actually several jealously protected trademarks AND patents but again, I won't dig this question here.
Regarding the difference between vintage and current SD's: I don't know... My oldest SD has been resold in 1982 (it was in... an Aria Pro II! LOL). The other DM's that I've bought since this day are much more recent: I've selected them for their low price in rebate sales without wanting to spend the money asked on "leboncoin" for old ones. I've already my share of vintage PU's, anyway (including à small collection of "prehistoric" Duncan's).
My "recent" SD gives me what I want - an early Dave Murray tone when it's required. Nothing special out of this observation. And yes, SD's split nicely.
Salut et à +,
FF
Re: Closest SD HB to an SD
Patent law is full of byzantine sh!t. Trust me I used to work with patents... And the system is further complicated by having its own, different dialect of legalese, that can be used to obfuscate the hell out of what you're saying or say something vague and meaningless to intentionally dangle the prospect of spurious lawsuits over competitors and discourage them. Add the arbitrary and clearly understaffed government body that lets tons of clearly illegal patents be granted because nobody gives them more than a cursory layman's look... and it turns into utter chaos.
Many or even most existing patents can be blown out of the water in court, but this takes time and money, so the market often lets them be. Especially in smaller markets that are controlled by duopolies or triumvirates (see: Seymour, DiMarzio, and sort-of EMG),
PS that said, afaik, it is a TRADEMARK not a patent, so basically Larry managed to uphold a claim that "people see double creme, they expect that it means DiMarzio. Although, again, it is: a) clearly generisized and invalid, b) probably applies solely to the aftermarket, which is messed up, sonce most existing guitar pickups are factory installed, and bystanders can't tell the difference c) wasn't legit to begin with, since factory pickups, both those that started as double creme AND yellowed old white plastics have existed long before Larry started winding
Seems like the "legaity" of his trademark stems from a non-expert generic legal opinion that only looked at the aftermarket field, in which he was a pioneer and probably the first to attempt to trademark anything, and did not bother to equate aftermarket pickups to factory pickups... thus, they looked and didn't see anyhistory of other big players attempting to sell double creme aftermarket pickups, and decided that Larry's claim that the market sees double creme and expects it to mean "Made by DiMarzio" was true
Patent law is full of byzantine sh!t. Trust me I used to work with patents... And the system is further complicated by having its own, different dialect of legalese, that can be used to obfuscate the hell out of what you're saying or say something vague and meaningless to intentionally dangle the prospect of spurious lawsuits over competitors and discourage them. Add the arbitrary and clearly understaffed government body that lets tons of clearly illegal patents be granted because nobody gives them more than a cursory layman's look... and it turns into utter chaos.
Many or even most existing patents can be blown out of the water in court, but this takes time and money, so the market often lets them be. Especially in smaller markets that are controlled by duopolies or triumvirates (see: Seymour, DiMarzio, and sort-of EMG),
PS that said, afaik, it is a TRADEMARK not a patent, so basically Larry managed to uphold a claim that "people see double creme, they expect that it means DiMarzio. Although, again, it is: a) clearly generisized and invalid, b) probably applies solely to the aftermarket, which is messed up, sonce most existing guitar pickups are factory installed, and bystanders can't tell the difference c) wasn't legit to begin with, since factory pickups, both those that started as double creme AND yellowed old white plastics have existed long before Larry started winding
Seems like the "legaity" of his trademark stems from a non-expert generic legal opinion that only looked at the aftermarket field, in which he was a pioneer and probably the first to attempt to trademark anything, and did not bother to equate aftermarket pickups to factory pickups... thus, they looked and didn't see anyhistory of other big players attempting to sell double creme aftermarket pickups, and decided that Larry's claim that the market sees double creme and expects it to mean "Made by DiMarzio" was true
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