Coil spilt - I don't think I did it right! :(

[Fusion1]

Re: Coil spilt - I don't think I did it right!

Thanks Artie thats a good schematic. It confirms the reasoning behin Tone4days diagram too. I still need the confirmation on how to wire that DPDT to the 3-way though. This is all theoretical now so I can't even try to test it as I don't have a DP/DT to speak of.

I am guessing the center lugs of either side of the DPDT switch would be the HOT connections and they in turn would have to be wired to either sides of the 3-way switch. Just a guess, anyone know for sure?

 

[Artie]

Re: Coil spilt - I don't think I did it right!

I'll try to get you a more complete diagram in the next couple days, but I'm still behind on a couple others that I promised to some other forum bro's.

Soon . . .

 

[tone4days]

Re: Coil spilt - I don't think I did it right!

I am guessing the center lugs of either side of the DPDT switch would be the HOT connections and they in turn would have to be wired to either sides of the 3-way switch. Just a guess, anyone know for sure?

i am nearly certain that you would take the green wire from the neck side and the black wire from the bridge side to either side of the 3 way pickup switch (or vice versa) .. remember that you will be splitting the slug coil from one when you are splitting the screw coil from the other, and vice versa .. in order to preserve hum cancelling, you will need to flip one of the magnets

cheers
t4d

 

[Fusion1]

Re: Coil spilt - I don't think I did it right!

Flipping one of the magnets would make the 2 pickups in series full humbucking mode become out of phase right?

I'd have to try it both ways to find out which I prefer moreut of phase series humbuckers, or a hum free double split neck and bridge. hmmm. Decisions decisions.

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Coil spilt - I don't think I did it right!

Wire to three way ...? Same way you normally do ... Man just run your hot to the switch, and ground ... well anywhere you got ground.

 

[Fusion1]

Re: Coil spilt - I don't think I did it right!

Thanks Kent I knew there was a simple solution to this.

 

[tone4days]

Re: Coil spilt - I don't think I did it right!

Wouldn't you want the full humbucker output going to the 3-way switch? (Red/white wires)

Flipping one of the magnets would make the 2 pickups in series full humbucking mode become out of phase right?

yes, you want full output to go to the 3-way ... so you have to wire it like i indicated .. if you do it your way, you'll either get half output or NO output depending on the mini-toggle DPDT

if i understand it correctly, by wiring it like i indicated, it takes care of the "reverse wind" aspect ... by flipping the magnet of one pickup, you get the "reverse polarity" aspect taken care of .. so when you combine (in parallel) a split coil from one pickup and a screw coil from the other, you get hum cancelling

i am sure the real experts can check me on this to make sure i am steering you right

cheers
t4d

 

[Fusion1]

Re: Coil spilt - I don't think I did it right!

Kent so I would take the black from both pickups to the 3 way, or as T4Ds says the neck green and bridge black?

T4D: When you have the 3 way and the DP/DT in the middle position do you get full humbucking series, or is it parallel or out of phase? I thought flipping the magnet did an out of phase thing, which Im not sure I'd want.

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Coil spilt - I don't think I did it right!

yes, you want full output to go to the 3-way ... so you have to wire it like i indicated .. if you do it your way, you'll either get half output or NO output depending on the mini-toggle DPDT

At this point with the extra added confusion (not aimed at any one person BTW, kinda a just happened group effort ... :laugh2: ) I have kinda forgot what we were talking about originally,
I'm still on the verical stack, which fusion 1 wants to use a ground tap (top coil active), on the regular HB you got your choice as indicated on the diagram ...
For a vertical stack run the black to the 3 way switch, the green and ground to the center lug, and the red & white to the throw lug that will be connected to the center (common) lug when the switch is selected for tap/split.
You can use an spst (on/off ), spdt, or dpdt (on/on) for this.
For regular HB ... The one coil, both coils/other coil ... must use either a spdt (on/off/on) or a dpdt (on/off/on) ...for two pups at once ... welll common sense a dpdt ...If you want independent coil selestion of either pup (not that useful really) then a spdt (on/off/on) for each pup would be the ticket ...

if i understand it correctly, by wiring it like i indicated, it takes care of the "reverse wind" aspect ... by flipping the magnet of one pickup, you get the "reverse polarity" aspect taken care of .. so when you combine (in parallel) a split coil from one pickup and a screw coil from the other, you get hum cancelling

i am sure the real experts can check me on this to make sure i am steering you right

cheers
t4d

You lost me on the reverse wind, that's the reason for hooking the finishes (or starts together) ... if one coil was wound backwards from the other (which they are such animals out there), then the finish of one would connect to the start of the other ... Anyway, that's just to invert the phase of one coil's hum relative to the other.
The reason you flip the magnet is to get the proper magnetic polarity for the physical coil you wish to use (screw or pole), as they need to be opposite, the reason you change the phase is to correct the phase issue ... when you swap a magnet it does reverse to phase of the pup, so you reverse it's phase to get it put back in phase with the other pup. This is why on single conductor braided pups, if the pup is out of phase with the other, you must swap it's magnet (since reversing it's electrical phase would cause problems because it's screen would be hot), swapping the magnet reverses it's phase.
NOTE simply turning the pup around physically doesn't do this. as it's still in phase, the to get the signal induced in the coils reversed you have to change the magnetic polarity under the coil, hence the magnet flip.

 

[tone4days]

Re: Coil spilt - I don't think I did it right!

T4D: When you have the 3 way and the DP/DT in the middle position do you get full humbucking series, or is it parallel or out of phase? I thought flipping the magnet did an out of phase thing, which Im not sure I'd want.

if i understand correctly, when wired the way i have been describing, with the DPDT in the middle and the 3-way in the middle, you get the neck pickup (coils internally wired in series) combined in-phase and in parallel with the bridge pickup (coils internally wired in series)

from 1st hand experience (i just went downstairs and took my control panel off to double check the way i wired my 540s), i can say this works exactly as i have tried to describe ... note: i use a 5 way lver switch and it's an HSH guitar - but the HH aspects of the schematic are exactly as i've described

hope this helps
t4d

 

[tone4days]

Re: Coil spilt - I don't think I did it right!

At this point with the extra added confusion (not aimed at any one person BTW, kinda a just happened group effort ... :laugh2: ) I have kinda forgot what we were talking about originally ...

lol ... me too ... the original thread was probably about stacked single coil size humbuckers .. but if i understand correctly, fusion1 started asking about combining two regular humbuckers ... then the idea of selecting either slug or screw coils for splitting and 'inner' and 'outer' splits came into the conversation, hence the on-off-on DPDT entered the arena ...

i hope this is close - if it isnt, i will have established myself as an even bigger goof than already established .. WOO HOO - a new personal best of goffiness for me !!

cheers
t4d

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Coil spilt - I don't think I did it right!

lol ... me too ... the original thread was probably about stacked single coil size humbuckers .. but if i understand correctly, fusion1 started asking about combining two regular humbuckers ... then the idea of selecting either slug or screw coils for splitting and 'inner' and 'outer' splits came into the conversation, hence the on-off-on DPDT entered the arena ...

i hope this is close - if it isnt, i will have established myself as an even bigger goof than already established .. WOO HOO - a new personal best of goffiness for me !!

cheers
t4d

LOL! Yeah the I think the question got answered one way or the other ... :burnout:

 

[Fusion1]

Re: Coil spilt - I don't think I did it right!

Sorry guys for confusing the original intent of the thread. I thought the original thread was answered regarding the stacked humbucker I just wanted to ask a similar question in an unrelated sort of way. I figured it's better than starting a new thread as it's a relevant topic to the thread.